Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Shhhh... let them figure it out for themselves. They will get there eventually..... maybe
What was my compass heading again????
Jerry
MILs to MOA Conversion Scale
- Thread starter Maple57
- Start date
Shhhh... let them figure it out for themselves. They will get there eventually..... maybe
What was my compass heading again????
Jerry
I still don't see the purpose. Not for PRS/NRL type shooting.
If you need to rely on other people using other units for wind calls - perhaps it's time to learn to read wind better. Having to do conversions between different units is asking for an F up. Besides that, you shouldn't have to rely on other people for wind calls, I would spend more time honing wind reading skills over trying to do some f'ed up conversion.
I've never seen anyone have to do conversions between mil and MOA at a PRS match. Must be another F-class turned PRS shooter trying to reinvent the wheel thing.
I can see this chart being useful for instructors who are teaching students who have moa and mil. But a shooter shouldn't have to be doing conversions, there's enough to think about already. You are setting yourself up for failure if you have to do conversions. Make things as easy as possible on yourself, and use the appropriate gear and techniques for the mission. There's no point trying to smash a square peg through a round hole if you don't have to.
If you need to rely on other people using other units for wind calls - perhaps it's time to learn to read wind better. Having to do conversions between different units is asking for an F up. Besides that, you shouldn't have to rely on other people for wind calls, I would spend more time honing wind reading skills over trying to do some f'ed up conversion.
I've never seen anyone have to do conversions between mil and MOA at a PRS match. Must be another F-class turned PRS shooter trying to reinvent the wheel thing.
I can see this chart being useful for instructors who are teaching students who have moa and mil. But a shooter shouldn't have to be doing conversions, there's enough to think about already. You are setting yourself up for failure if you have to do conversions. Make things as easy as possible on yourself, and use the appropriate gear and techniques for the mission. There's no point trying to smash a square peg through a round hole if you don't have to.
3.43 actually.
Edit. Someone beat me to it.
There's literally no reason to convert now, since all of our turrets match our reticle now.
I've gone through the NRL and PRS rule book and have not found a single reference to any requirement to use a MIL scope.
How does a guy get off bullying people all over the internet as though all PRS shooters must use what they use as though there is some meaningfully inappropriate element to anything else?
I do invite you kthomas not to use the conversion scale. Just go do you.
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
https://www.longrangeshooting.org/articles/moa-and-mils-explained
Surf down to the MILS/MRAD section.
"MILs, or milliradians, are a unit of measurement dividing radians in a circle. A radian is equal to 57.3 degrees, with 6.2832 (π x 2) radians in a circle. There are 1000 milliradians in 1 radian, and therefore 6,283 milliradians (or mils) in a circle. Thus, 1 mil at 100 yards is equal to 10 centimeters, or 3.6” inches."
And then further down Comparing Mils and MOA
"There are 21,600 MOA in a circle, so a little quick division determines there are 3.4377 MOA per mil. At 100 yards, 3.4377 MOA equals 3.599 inches (3.4377 x 1.047). Rounded up, one mil equals 3.6 inches at 100 yards."
so my 3.6 should be qualified as inches at 100yds. Close enough for govt work....
Jerry
Surf down to the MILS/MRAD section.
"MILs, or milliradians, are a unit of measurement dividing radians in a circle. A radian is equal to 57.3 degrees, with 6.2832 (π x 2) radians in a circle. There are 1000 milliradians in 1 radian, and therefore 6,283 milliradians (or mils) in a circle. Thus, 1 mil at 100 yards is equal to 10 centimeters, or 3.6” inches."
And then further down Comparing Mils and MOA
"There are 21,600 MOA in a circle, so a little quick division determines there are 3.4377 MOA per mil. At 100 yards, 3.4377 MOA equals 3.599 inches (3.4377 x 1.047). Rounded up, one mil equals 3.6 inches at 100 yards."
so my 3.6 should be qualified as inches at 100yds. Close enough for govt work....
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
You worry about whatever you need to worry about....
I don't need to mix units...so for me this conversion is merely a nice conversation piece.
The only time I would bother to use it is when discussing target sizes when listed as MOA or inches in the match book... but I need to scale in mils. Close enough for me to get the job done.
But you worry about whatever you want to worry about.
Jerry
I don't need to mix units...so for me this conversion is merely a nice conversation piece.
The only time I would bother to use it is when discussing target sizes when listed as MOA or inches in the match book... but I need to scale in mils. Close enough for me to get the job done.
But you worry about whatever you want to worry about.
Jerry
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- Location
- Okanagan Valley B.C.
Why go back and forth get a good MRad scope ,
at 100 mtrs
1 click = 1 cm
10 clicks = 1 mil (4'')
20 clicks = 2 mils(8'')
30 clicks = 3 mils (12'')
at 1000 mtrs
1 click = 10 cm (4'')
10 clicks = 1 mil / 1 mtr (40'')
20 clickls = 2 mils/2 mtrs (80'')
Up Down Side to Side
Any one 50 years and younger has been
in the metric system all their lives , any one
over 70 can be excused.
at 100 mtrs
1 click = 1 cm
10 clicks = 1 mil (4'')
20 clicks = 2 mils(8'')
30 clicks = 3 mils (12'')
at 1000 mtrs
1 click = 10 cm (4'')
10 clicks = 1 mil / 1 mtr (40'')
20 clickls = 2 mils/2 mtrs (80'')
Up Down Side to Side
Any one 50 years and younger has been
in the metric system all their lives , any one
over 70 can be excused.
Agree with you on "hold 3 lines to the left/right", haha
Pretty much the only time I convert as well, (although I kinda do it the opposite and slightly cruder, way, ie 1moa = 0.3mils but 6 of 1, etc) when looking at target sizes or when talking to the few competitors who still have moa scopes (usually when they ask:"what did you hold for wind?").
These ridiculous 'moa vs mils' online arguments seem to crop up all the time and there really is no reason for them. The only reasonable reason for using an moa scope in for PRS-type match shooting is because that's what you already have and you don't want to buy a new one (which is fair, scopes are expensive). The whole "I think in inches/meters" argument is stupid as these scopes all have a reticle with which you can measure, no need to worry about linear distances.
Standardization makes sense in all disciplines. Just as I assume there is zero advantage to using a mil scope in F-Class (not my wheelhouse but target scoring rings in moa so seems logical) there is also zero advantage to using an moa scope for PRS. Those who insist there is some benefit to using moa for PRS fall into the camp of people who "know better than everyone else" (moa is more precise, blah blah blah) and luckily for them, there is this handy new tool, hahah.
I'm not sure how I'm being a bully, nor am I dictating what equipment people should use. My argument is not a gear based one.
People can use mils or moa - that in itself inconsequential. Mils or MOA accomplish the same thing. Use whatever one you prefer.
There's no need to convert between mils and MOA on the firing line. It's another level of added complexity and potential confusion that isn't necessary. There's no need to convert - work and stay within whatever system you are using.
If you need a wind call, get it in mph. What someone is holding in mils or moa is not how you should be getting a wind call anyways. Everyone's ballistics is different, and it's dumb to get a wind call in mils (or MOA), even if you are using the same units as them. MPH is MPH, but everyone's hold for X MPH is different.
PS - your reticle is a ruler. Believe the bullet, measure your POI with your reticle and adjust from there.
Enjoy your converting, if that works for you then have at it. But much like SFP scopes, I also wouldn't recommend firing line conversions for PRS/NRL comps and the like.
+1 on the standardization of everything possible in a team environment. I’ve been there in another discipline. Those who want to reinvent the wheel their own way, quickly learn that standard communication and processes make the best use of teams. I only convert for others who want to use my data. I don’t trust others to do my calculations correctly. I never cheat in school because I was afraid they were wrong.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
The best was the team confusion when no matter how much corrective windage was inputted, the impacts just got worst and worst...
And then we clued in, shooter was using a S&B scope
Jerry
NRL PRS guys are always grinding out conversions between MILS and the rational people who prefer MOA.. He He.
Anyway, I came up with this simple image that I keep saved on my cell phone.
Any time we need to convert between the correct unit of measurement (MOA) and MILs, we open the image and swipe.
Problem solved.
Anyway here's the image if you would like to save off a copy to your phone and use to narrow the gap confusion.
Someone should make a key chain measuring tape like this but longer and with more detail.
In the last 3 years of PRS shooting I have not seen one MOA spotting scope or bino’s. Plus we always have our own gear.
People have a tendency to think that mils and moa are either metric or imperial units, but they are not.
As you state, there is no need to think in inches/millimeters/furlongs/etc. Your reticle is a ruler, whether it's in mils or MOA. You only have to think within whatever angular measurements you are working with (mils or MOA).
Bringing in different units and converting is inviting failure. Keep it simple.
But really, that's probably about as accurate as those who are shooting at a target at ~900 yards, trying to figure out how many inches or centimeters that miss was (with no way of accurately measuring that from the firing line), converting that number back to mils or MOA, missing again, and going through that same convoluted process again and again...
It's amazing that there are still some that can see their miss in mils/moa, and easily have the ability to measure and correct with their reticle that's in mils or moa, but decide to guess who many inches/centimeters their miss was, convert that back to mils/moa, just to probably miss again...
