New to rifle reloading ....

[Odinson]

And need advice / coaching to get it right. I have a 6.5x55 Swede that I want to feed. The powders that I have are BLC (2) and IMR3031. The bullets are 123 gr and 140 gr. Where do I find information for using these powders? Neither LEE nor Lyman's has anything on these bullet / powder combinations. One of the big things is ..... how do you figure out a "starting" load with powders that are not in the book?
Thanks!

 

[mimile]

And need advice / coaching to get it right. I have a 6.5x55 Swede that I want to feed. The powders that I have are BLC (2) and IMR3031. The bullets are 123 gr and 140 gr. Where do I find information for using these powders? Neither LEE nor Lyman's has anything on these bullet / powder combinations. One of the big things is ..... how do you figure out a "starting" load with powders that are not in the book?
Thanks!

None of these two powders is good for these bullet weights. You should use IMR 4350 or H4350.

 

[MiG25]

Lee has data for the 257 Roberts and 7x57 in those weights. Both cartidges have similar capacity and pressure limits as the 6.5x55.

I'd use the 257 Roberts 120gr starting loads with the 123 grainers and work up.

I'd use the 7x57 139gr and 145gr starting loads with the 140 grainers and work up.

 

[bearhunter]

You need to give us more information. Which model of rifle do you have that's chambered for the 6.5x55??

You're asking for answers that could be dangerous to you and those close by.

For the old Swede milsurps,

120 grain load, which is close enough:

CCI 200 primer / 123 grain bullet / start with 33.5 grains of IMR3031 and work up to 38.0 grains.

From personal experience, BLC2 isn't really bulky enough to get a good fill ratio in the case and you should use magnum primers with Ball powders for consistent ignition 38.0 grains will get you started. There's a good reason manuals don't list this powder for this cartridge.

For the 140 grain loads,

Start at 31 grains of IMR3031 and work up to 35.0

IMR3031 is IMHO, to fast for the 6.5 diameter bores, with cartridges that have generous powder capacities.

I know CGN is convenient, but why aren't you going onto other sites, dedicated to reloading?? Most manufacturers will explain why some powders are borderline or unsuitable for certain cartridge/bullet combos.

 

[Odinson]

You need to give us more information. Which model of rifle do you have that's chambered for the 6.5x55??

You're asking for answers that could be dangerous to you and those close by.

For the old Swede milsurps,

120 grain load, which is close enough:

CCI 200 primer / 123 grain bullet / start with 33.5 grains of IMR3031 and work up to 38.0 grains.

From personal experience, BLC2 isn't really bulky enough to get a good fill ratio in the case and you should use magnum primers with Ball powders for consistent ignition 38.0 grains will get you started. There's a good reason manuals don't list this powder for this cartridge.

For the 140 grain loads,

Start at 31 grains of IMR3031 and work up to 35.0

IMR3031 is IMHO, to fast for the 6.5 diameter bores, with cartridges that have generous powder capacities.

I know CGN is convenient, but why aren't you going onto other sites, dedicated to reloading?? Most manufacturers will explain why some powders are borderline or unsuitable for certain cartridge/bullet combos.

Thank you for the information. The firearm is a Husquavarna M-38 built in 1941. It is NOT a 96/38 or any other variant. It has a new barrel that was purchased from Tradex and installed by Gunco last year. So far about 10 factory rounds through it.
Just for clarification, I have done a lot of searching on the loading sites and didn't find anything for the combination that I am working with. I didn't "run here first" I came here last.

 

[Ganderite]

BLC2 should be avoided. It would be hard to ignite with so much empty space in the case.

3031 will make good plinking loads, but it is really too fast for real shooting. 4350 speed powders would be much better.

Heavy bullets need slower powders, especially in the smaller diameters. This is why these powders are not listed.

 

[Odinson]

BLC2 should be avoided. It would be hard to ignite with so much empty space in the case.

3031 will make good plinking loads, but it is really too fast for real shooting. 4350 speed powders would be much better.

Heavy bullets need slower powders, especially in the smaller diameters. This is why these powders are not listed.

Thank you very much! I knew there was a good reason that they were not in the books. I'll get some 4350 powder on to my shopping list Orrrr should I say wish list with the powder shortages these days.
Does it matter whether it is H-4350 or IMR-4350? ...... Are they different?
Thanks again.

 

[Ganderite]

Thank you very much! I knew there was a good reason that they were not in the books. I'll get some 4350 powder on to my shopping list Orrrr should I say wish list with the powder shortages these days.
Does it matter whether it is H-4350 or IMR-4350? ...... Are they different?
Thanks again.

They are similar - but slightly different. With either one, start with the Start load, work up and find what groups best in your rifle.

I suggest you look at the 4350 from Canada Ammo.

https://www.canadaammo.com/product/detail/dominion-d4350-smokeless-propellant-made-in-canada-5lbs/

 

[Neilm]

I have OLD manuals and have data for IMR 3031
Hornady 3rd Edition shows from 30.9 to 36 gr for velocities from 2100 to 2400 with 140 gr bullet

Speer #6 shows 37 to 41 gr for 120 gr with velocities from 2569 to 2745
and 33 to 37 gr for 140 gr. with velocities from 2196 to 2445

Sierra. shows 34.0 to 40.0 with 120 gr and velocities 2300 to 2700
29.2 to 36.7 with 140 gr and velocities 2100 to 2400

Imr 3031 used to be considered a versatile powder giving good results in a lot of cases. It does not give the velocities of slower powders but usually gives good accuracy.

 

[bearhunter]

I have OLD manuals and have data for IMR 3031
Hornady 3rd Edition shows from 30.9 to 36 gr for velocities from 2100 to 2400 with 140 gr bullet

Speer #6 shows 37 to 41 gr for 120 gr with velocities from 2569 to 2745
and 33 to 37 gr for 140 gr. with velocities from 2196 to 2445

Sierra. shows 34.0 to 40.0 with 120 gr and velocities 2300 to 2700
29.2 to 36.7 with 140 gr and velocities 2100 to 2400

Imr 3031 used to be considered a versatile powder giving good results in a lot of cases. It does not give the velocities of slower powders but usually gives good accuracy.

The Swedes actually used a powder that was very close to 3031 for a long time.

We bought it later, from Higginson's for $4/pound delivered, if you bought 28 pounds. Tom Higginson would usually throw in a couple of extra pounds with each order, if you ordered it in the 7 pound boxes. It was listed as #44 powder, which was produced by Bofors. Sadly it deteriorated within about 5 years and had to be burned.

Ganderite is right on as usual, 3031 is to fast. The old Hornady manuals list it as the fastest powder in their loads.

 

[St Pauli]

Reloaded 22 has been suggested to me as the powder to use.

 

[MiG25]

At the grave risk of argueing with Ganderite and Bearhunter; what is wrong with a load using ~35 grains of powder and yielding ~2300fps?

According to CS Landis, the ammo factories formerly loaded a lot of cartridges with 4198; nobody had a chrongraph and less powder meant higher profits.

 

[RVG_Don]

I have OLD manuals and have data for IMR 3031
Hornady 3rd Edition shows from 30.9 to 36 gr for velocities from 2100 to 2400 with 140 gr bullet

Speer #6 shows 37 to 41 gr for 120 gr with velocities from 2569 to 2745
and 33 to 37 gr for 140 gr. with velocities from 2196 to 2445

Sierra. shows 34.0 to 40.0 with 120 gr and velocities 2300 to 2700
29.2 to 36.7 with 140 gr and velocities 2100 to 2400

Imr 3031 used to be considered a versatile powder giving good results in a lot of cases. It does not give the velocities of slower powders but usually gives good accuracy.

The posters who are suggesting that a slower powder is preferable are correct but that doesn't mean that slightly less suitable powders can't be used with reasonably good results. A basic rule of thumb for me is that if there's published load data then it's safe to use that data, as with the data supplied by Neilm. I wouldn't hesitate to use the data he supplied and the same thing with the following load data below from the Lyman 48th edition where load data is given for jacketed projectiles ranging in weight from 85gr -100gr-120gr-129gr-140gr to 160gr using IMR 3031. If it was me I would load some up with the IMR3031 and see how it goes from there. If you get good results and you're happy there's not much more you can hope for. You're loading for a M-38 and not a precision rifle chambered in 6.5x55 so having the most suitable powder isn't required. I load for the 6.5x55 and I've used quite a few different powders not all of them perfectly suited but I've always had good results. In milsurps I never load close to the max instead half way or slightly above a minimum load has always worked good for me.

From the Lyman 48th edition:
The firearm used was a Swedish military carbine with an 18" barrel with a twist rate of 1-7 1/2"
IMR 3031
120gr. 37gr. 2500 fps - 41gr. 2770 fps
129gr. 35gr. 2375 fps - 39gr. 2583 fps
140gr. 33gr. 2242 fps - 37gr. 2415 fps

Looking at this specific data and the 123gr projectile I would start at approximately 35gr and I wouldn't go above around 37 or 37.5gr or maybe 38gr. or so but that's just me. I find a modest load somewhere in the middle to be the most fun to shoot and on the safer side instead of pushing it towards the max. As well starting off lower for the 123gr. would be perfectly fine.
I have load data from Stevespages that shows a starting load for a 125gr projectile at 31.7 gr of IMR3031 in the 6.5x55 (Some people will say that Steve's data isn't 100% reliable I don't know maybe but it's always been good for me)

This is good advice from bearhunter

For the old Swede milsurps, 120 grain load, which is close enough:
CCI 200 primer / 123 grain bullet / start with 33.5 grains of IMR3031 and work up to 38.0 grains.

I used to own two 1942 M-38's and loved shooting them. Today I own a sporterized M-96 and I load the Speer 90gr tnt in it and it's a super light recoiling accurate load, I really enjoy it. Good luck loading for your M-38

 

[DGY]

They are similar - but slightly different. With either one, start with the Start load, work up and find what groups best in your rifle.

I suggest you look at the 4350 from Canada Ammo.

https://www.canadaammo.com/product/detail/dominion-d4350-smokeless-propellant-made-in-canada-5lbs/

Hmmm the price is right for 5lbs... what is the differences between D4350 and the H4350 and IMR4350?
You can pm me all the I do so to not high jack this thread if you wish!
Thank you

 

[Odinson]

Thank you to everyone for the information. I guess I need to start sourcing powder that is better suited for my purpose.

 

[bearhunter]

At the grave risk of argueing with Ganderite and Bearhunter; what is wrong with a load using ~35 grains of powder and yielding ~2300fps?

According to CS Landis, the ammo factories formerly loaded a lot of cartridges with 4198; nobody had a chrongraph and less powder meant higher profits.

Nothing at all, but the OP was interested in 3031/BLC2, so we stayed with that and explained why it was difficult for him to find loads in manuals for them.

RVG-, that's just the differences between manuals.

 

[RVG_Don]

Nothing at all, but the OP was interested in 3031/BLC2, so we stayed with that and explained why it was difficult for him to find loads in manuals for them.

RVG-, that's just the differences between manuals.

Bearhunter, ya agreed, it goes to show that sometimes there's more variation and flexibility in powder charge sizes than one realizes in may cases and situations. Different projectiles, primers can also effect the difference seen in data between different manuals. It's all part of what makes figuring out what powders to use and where to start and how far you can go so interesting.