Questions on obtaining a deep sheen on a gunstock

Sounds interesting, I took a peek - like the "hardening" property, never a terrible idea with a gun - though unless someone imports and carries it in Canada might be a problem as the MSDS says it's quite flammable.




If you have that kind of patience then I would suggest you get and learn to use cabinet scrapers. No scratch pattern, no sanding down through multiple grits - one pass and 'done' (or two depending on how rough your surface is) it will be the smoother than and finish you can get with an abrasive of any kind and you won;t have to do much if any whiskering. :) (and abrasives are expensive, scrapers run $2 - $15 each or so and will likely last the rest of your life.)

I would recommend (even though I have broken this rule myself) staying away from steel wool. You wind up with it embedded into the wood & it can ruin a finish - granted with stains, oils and waxes you are pretty safe but if you are doing an aqua fortis or ferric nitrate finish you are going to have a problem.

Don't discount bee's wax - carnauba and parrafin are quite slippery (so I am not entirely surprised to learn paraffin is used for ski wax) - bee's wax is not.
I use paraffin to protect/lubricate my machine tools (planer, jointer, bandsaw etc), planes and chisels - works great.

Carnauba is the hardest of the 3 - it's not entirely out of the question to blend 2 or more of the three to get the properties you want.

I do have a old recipe here I found on the net that uses carnauba wax mixed with 4 other ingredients. Its supposed to be a real old time finish.
 
The second one is getting real close to what I am looking for. A little more sheen then that but not a gloss finish and I would be happy. I looked yesterday for danish oil in town and nada,in fact all I can find is one 250ml, can 40 miles from me. Hopefully its still there Tuesday so I can have it picked up.

That one was done with Watco Danish oil in a "natural" color. A few more thin coats and wet sanding compared to the Remington as it was dark walnut that showed the stripping marks easily.
 
I do have a old recipe here I found on the net that uses carnauba wax mixed with 4 other ingredients. Its supposed to be a real old time finish.

I would be very interested to hear what the other ingredients are :)

Might be a bit on the shiny side for you - but these are a custom stock I did a while back with tung and wax finish (over tung)

20180410_165527.jpg


20180410_165410.jpg
 
I would be very interested to hear what the other ingredients are :)

Might be a bit on the shiny side for you - but these are a custom stock I did a while back with tung and wax finish (over tung)

20180410_165527.jpg


20180410_165410.jpg

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS...Perfect..The grain pops out with just a slight satin finish. And its not a gloss finish or a french polish finish. The second pics washes it out a little but the first pic is beautiful. Even a higher sheen then that wouldnt hurt my feelings one bit. I just put the 2nd coat of tung oil on the Ross stock tonight,its tinted with my alkanet root stain and its drying now. The first coat I let dry for 40 hours before recoating. I need to know how you got this finish...Pleasssseeeeeee...lol..

Here is the concoction I found on the net

16 OZ. BLO
5 TSP- spirit of turpentine
1 TBSP- carnauba wax
2 TSP- Venice Turpentine

Put the above ingredients in a sauce pan and simmer for 10 minutes......OUTSIDE LOL The spirit of turp and the Venice turp are dang near impossible to find. The venice Turp used to be used to toughen up horse hooves but not easily found now as its kinda a no-no to use it anymore for that purpose. I talked to the local vet clinic and a buddy of mine who is a farrier and they both wished me good luck. Not sure what the spirit of turp is but some people say its the common stuff in hardware stores.
 
Iv used tung oil a couple times, as mentioned, I wet sanded the stock a few times to fill the pours. Then I hand rubbed oil for another 8-9-10 coats. On my final coat I added about 10-15% spar varnish to the tung.




After reading Mr Flach’s recommendation on Daly’s a while back, and seeing the stocks he’s finished, I decided to pick up a can (ordered online, but don’t recall where from). I think I’ll try it on the stock I’m working on now once it’s finished.
 
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS...Perfect..The grain pops out with just a slight satin finish. And its not a gloss finish or a french polish finish. The second pics washes it out a little but the first pic is beautiful. Even a higher sheen then that wouldnt hurt my feelings one bit. I just put the 2nd coat of tung oil on the Ross stock tonight,its tinted with my alkanet root stain and its drying now. The first coat I let dry for 40 hours before recoating. I need to know how you got this finish...Pleasssseeeeeee...lol..

Here is the concoction I found on the net

16 OZ. BLO
5 TSP- spirit of turpentine
1 TBSP- carnauba wax
2 TSP- Venice Turpentine

Put the above ingredients in a sauce pan and simmer for 10 minutes......OUTSIDE LOL The spirit of turp and the Venice turp are dang near impossible to find. The venice Turp used to be used to toughen up horse hooves but not easily found now as its kinda a no-no to use it anymore for that purpose. I talked to the local vet clinic and a buddy of mine who is a farrier and they both wished me good luck. Not sure what the spirit of turp is but some people say its the common stuff in hardware stores.



yes, spirit of turpentine is the same stuff as in the can at crappy tire - at least as far as I know ;) Venice turpentine seems to be readily available online I just googled it and got a full page of places (some in Canada!) selling it.

That would have been finished with scrapers and tung oil - at that point in time I was probably still using Clapham's wax polish (Beeswax based paste/polish)
 
Iv used tung oil a couple times, as mentioned, I wet sanded the stock a few times to fill the pours. Then I hand rubbed oil for another 8-9-10 coats. On my final coat I added about 10-15% spar varnish to the tung.




After reading Mr Flach’s recommendation on Daly’s a while back, and seeing the stocks he’s finished, I decided to pick up a can (ordered online, but don’t recall where from). I think I’ll try it on the stock I’m working on now once it’s finished.

Interesting with the spar varnish. The second pic/lower one is a nice finish.
 
So I am really starting to think I should be doing more playing with tung oil as it seems to be more of what I am after. I wet the stock again last night (2nd. coat) with my tung oil/stain concoction and have a very nice reddish color on it now. I left in on for about 30 minutes and wiped it off. So thats 2 coats on it just for color. Now my brain is starting to think the next coat should be wet sanded and rubbed in then lightly wiped down. Of course me is thinking I should be using my staining oil to do this so I dont get a uneven color on the stock. Since I used 1000 grit to finish it before I stained it,to me I think I should be using 1000 grit still until I get the grain filled.

My way of thinking is that it would be more work to revert back to 400 grit,600,1000 for grain filling. 1000 might take a bit but it makes more sense to me.Or..should I use just straight non tinted tung oil and proceed? Staining this stock has created a small problem as how to proceed.
 
yes, spirit of turpentine is the same stuff as in the can at crappy tire - at least as far as I know ;) Venice turpentine seems to be readily available online I just googled it and got a full page of places (some in Canada!) selling it.

That would have been finished with scrapers and tung oil - at that point in time I was probably still using Clapham's wax polish (Beeswax based paste/polish)

I looked on their site and would you have been using the furniture wax polish or the antique wax polish if you can remember?
 
I would wet sand it with whatever you have been using. I usually use 600 grit and keep the same piece of paper going as it only gets finer. Let it dry good and repeat. You will see it improve after a few times if it’s going to
 
So I am really starting to think I should be doing more playing with tung oil as it seems to be more of what I am after. I wet the stock again last night (2nd. coat) with my tung oil/stain concoction and have a very nice reddish color on it now. I left in on for about 30 minutes and wiped it off. So thats 2 coats on it just for color. Now my brain is starting to think the next coat should be wet sanded and rubbed in then lightly wiped down. Of course me is thinking I should be using my staining oil to do this so I dont get a uneven color on the stock. Since I used 1000 grit to finish it before I stained it,to me I think I should be using 1000 grit still until I get the grain filled.

My way of thinking is that it would be more work to revert back to 400 grit,600,1000 for grain filling. 1000 might take a bit but it makes more sense to me.Or..should I use just straight non tinted tung oil and proceed? Staining this stock has created a small problem as how to proceed.

If you were already at the stage (earlier) where you we looking for your "sheen," there's no way you should be going back to 400 paper. Adding more oil won't upset your stain, I wouldn't think.

I realise I'm coming across as a pain in the ass... it's your stock, and I'm not the only one who can be right, but the proverbial "hand rubbed oil finish" is just that. Go back and read sean69's (short) list of ingredients again.

I think your plan to proceed with just tung oil is a good one. I got worried earlier when you posted about some formula you had found. See what you can do with several coats of tung oil. Keep in mind that Tru-oil will do precisely the same thing, only faster. Pick either, put in the work, and finish it with wax. That's the old-school way, and the right way, if you want an oil finish, and no amount of research or secret formulae will beat it.
 
If you were already at the stage (earlier) where you we looking for your "sheen," there's no way you should be going back to 400 paper. Adding more oil won't upset your stain, I wouldn't think.

I realise I'm coming across as a pain in the ass... it's your stock, and I'm not the only one who can be right, but the proverbial "hand rubbed oil finish" is just that. Go back and read sean69's (short) list of ingredients again.

I think your plan to proceed with just tung oil is a good one. I got worried earlier when you posted about some formula you had found. See what you can do with several coats of tung oil. Keep in mind that Tru-oil will do precisely the same thing, only faster. Pick either, put in the work, and finish it with wax. That's the old-school way, and the right way, if you want an oil finish, and no amount of research or secret formulae will beat it.

You are definately NOT a pain in the ass. Any help I can get with this is muchly appreciated. I am going to call Lee Valley about shipping some of the poly tung oil and sealer to me. Its a 4 hour drive so we will see what this will cost in the end. I have used tru oil for 35 or so years but trying to learn the tung oil finish as it looks like the way I want to go on some stocks. Me is just worried about screwing up my stain job as the color is very nice. This is one finish that I have had trouble with for quite a while trying to figure it out. The tung oil stain will have minimum 48 hours to dry as of tonight so after a call today to L.V. that will help me to get in a direction to head.

Oh and the formula I found was just something on the net in the double gun website. Its also where I found the alkanet root recipe. To me it would be a interesting thing to try on a piece of walnut board maybe this summer if I can find all the ingredients.
 
You are definately NOT a pain in the ass. Any help I can get with this is muchly appreciated. I am going to call Lee Valley about shipping some of the poly tung oil and sealer to me. Its a 4 hour drive so we will see what this will cost in the end. I have used tru oil for 35 or so years but trying to learn the tung oil finish as it looks like the way I want to go on some stocks. Me is just worried about screwing up my stain job as the color is very nice. This is one finish that I have had trouble with for quite a while trying to figure it out. The tung oil stain will have minimum 48 hours to dry as of tonight so after a call today to L.V. that will help me to get in a direction to head.

Oh and the formula I found was just something on the net in the double gun website. Its also where I found the alkanet root recipe. To me it would be a interesting thing to try on a piece of walnut board maybe this summer if I can find all the ingredients.

Your stain finish should be fine - it should have soaked into the stock with the oil - plain tung, poly or pure is fine over top of that. may get a little darker.

Never been a fan of the sanding slurry, it works, just not a fan. Fills up the pores with crud you would normally wipe away. oils will eventually build up and fill em in - long time though. poly oils will also & a bit faster (both will look better) wax will fill em fast... but ideally use a pore filler before oil/staining. (since you are at it, Lee Valley has a water based one that works great. https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...5766-aqua-coat-wood-grain-filler?item=56Z1900 - love the stuff.)

Sanding (or scraping ;) ) is generally something you do to prepare your work to take a finish - the only thing I can think of that NEEDS it is a shellac finish (leveling).

However you choose to get the pores filled in if you are using the poly tung - take a peek at that stock conditioner, it contains pumice. If you wind up too shiny, you can take it back (a little) with pumice or rotten stone (Lee Valley carries both)
 
I would be very interested to hear what the other ingredients are :)

Might be a bit on the shiny side for you - but these are a custom stock I did a while back with tung and wax finish (over tung)

20180410_165527.jpg


20180410_165410.jpg

Very, very nice. To me, this is the perfect look for a finish. (not to mention you're working with some nice wood)

You mentioned that you use a mixture of Pure Tung Oil & mineral spirits and then wax at the end. Would you mind sharing your steps and process? i.e number of coats, percent pure tung oil & percent mineral spirits, drying time between coats, any wet sanding between coats or just at the end prior to waxing, etc.

I just started a stock with Pure Tung Oil (Lee Valley) so I am very curious because I am after exactly the look in your pictures. So far I have; 1) sanded the stock to #400 2) applied one coat of a 50/50 Tung oil/mineral spirits mix, let sit for 30 minutes and wiped off 3) wiped off any seeking during the first day or two until there was no more. It as been drying for one week now and is very smooth to the touch.

My current plan is to use Renaissance wax at the end. (my understanding is that Lee Valley Conservators wax is the same)

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
 
Very, very nice. To me, this is the perfect look for a finish. (not to mention you're working with some nice wood)

You mentioned that you use a mixture of Pure Tung Oil & mineral spirits and then wax at the end. Would you mind sharing your steps and process? i.e number of coats, percent pure tung oil & percent mineral spirits, drying time between coats, any wet sanding between coats or just at the end prior to waxing, etc.

I just started a stock with Pure Tung Oil (Lee Valley) so I am very curious because I am after exactly the look in your pictures. So far I have; 1) sanded the stock to #400 2) applied one coat of a 50/50 Tung oil/mineral spirits mix, let sit for 30 minutes and wiped off 3) wiped off any seeking during the first day or two until there was no more. It as been drying for one week now and is very smooth to the touch.

My current plan is to use Renaissance wax at the end. (my understanding is that Lee Valley Conservators wax is the same)

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.


That came from 3 book matched slabs from walnut bole - they started out at about 4' x 3' (ish) chaotic grain but if you can find the right spots where it flows it's really (REALLY) nice.

Anyway, I'll try to summarize, pretty much all my measuring is "by eye":

> Fill pores, I use a filler if needed - work mostly with curly maple, but it rarely needs a filler of any kind. (I use the Lee Valley water based stuff link in previous post)

> I generally scrape instead of sanding, finest surface you can get. (though sometimes you have to sand, a chaotic grain structure will fight your scrapers)

> Whiskering, less if scraping, more if sanding, required for Maple, Walnut is a little more forgiving.

> Stain, dye or chemical colouring (Ferric nitrate/aqua fortis), again mostly water based dyes & AF with curly maple, can't actually remember the last time I used stain! (dyes accentuate figure, stains will hide it, use a stain when wood needs to look like some other species)

> 50/50 Tung to mineral spirits for fist application

> 75/25 Tung to mineral for the second

> 100% Tung till the stock stops soaking it up (when dry spots stop appearing usually 1 or 2 applications, occasionally 3 - mostly determined by the porosity of the wood) slather it on, let it sit 10/15/30 minutes then scrub the excess off with some linen cloth.

AND/OR

> Poly tung or poly/sealer blend ~ depends on how it's to get used and by whom, basically if the end user will have trouble maintaining a complete wax finish, it gets some kind of polymer... usually tung, but I have used Tru-oil as well.

> Wax, pure oil or poly, it gets a wax finish and the metal as well. (well the appropriate parts of the metal) Wax really helps the look and protection of browned parts as well - Mother's car paste wax does nicely for metal.


Drying time between, completely depends on humidity, generally I won't apply more oil within 48 hours, more time as the oil mix gets thicker. (sometimes up to a week or more!)

No sanding or steel wool in between either, there should be nothing left on the surface of the stock to sand, if you do sand a finish, especially with colour (stain or dye) you risk thin spots that will show up as blotches, without colour, then the finish penetration will (probably) be uneven.

So my overall approach is,

- sanding/scraping/pore filling is done "as" preparation for colour and finish
- colour is applied before finish (and sometimes as part ~ depending on the product)
- finish is determined by end use and who is using it. (I'm just as likely to spar varnish a bush gun or shellac a safe queen ;) )


So that's my way ... there must be 1000's of different ways and 1000's of products, a lot of it is preference.

I do however strongly suggest everyone give cabinet scrapers a try (at least once) - you will be amazed at the finish quality!
 
Thank you very much for sharing. This shall be saved and referred to as the The sean69 Finishing Method

One of my project guns coming up has a decent straight-grained walnut stock. It will be a good candidate for me to try cabinet scrapers. Any suggestions on which one & where to purchase?
 
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Thank you very much for sharing. This shall be saved and referred to as the The sean69 Finishing Method

One of my project guns coming up has a decent straight-grained walnut stock. It will be a good candidate for me to try cabinet scrapers. Any suggestions on which one & where to purchase?


I started with this one - probably use it the most.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/scrapers/32671-bahco-scraper?item=97K5002

I picked all 4 of these up because the thinner ones are easier to camber and the thicker ones can move a lot of material (You'll never strip paint off a molding the same way again!)
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...32670-super-hard-milled-scrapers?item=05K3010

You can get them at BusyBee, but they are real soft, a pack costs around $12 so they are economical to cut into different shapes but not much else "disposable"

You will need a burnisher as well, I get by with this one, but a bigger one would be easier to control. (except its $50!)
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/sharpening/32643-veritas-carbide-burnisher?item=05K2030

Watch a bunch of videos to get the sharpening & technique down do some practice, it's easy to use too much pressure .... they gotta be sharp. If anyone suggests you can use a screwdriver or any hunk of metal as a burnisher, "you can't" the tool needs to be much harder than the scraper..

Pro Tip: once you turn your hook (or raise your burr depending on who you are talking to) burnish it down then raise it again - work hardens the hook & last pretty close to 2x as long between sharpening.

You'll also need a decent fine file - I also stone mine to get the edges perfectly smooth and square. (well the square scrapers anyway)


 
Re: scraping & sharpening

Definitely practice! Make yourself some curved wood to practice on. You don't want to practice on your rifle.
 
A couple of things I've learned from my own wood working and stock work.

First off oil stains and a lot of oil based finishes take longer to fully cure and polymerize than you might think. Especially in cool and darker conditions. What I found was that the odor changes as it properly polymerizes. Plain BLO or even Lee Valley's polymerized tung oil (more below) takes at LEAST a few days to dry and polymerize inside a basement or garage where it's cool. On a sunny summer day the same products can be fully polymerized after an afternoon's sunning on the back porch with occasional turning to face each side to the sun's UV rays. But inside and cool? Days at least.

If you try to sand or re-coat sooner than the first coats take to fully polymerize you'll just thin and wash away the previous coats and wonder why it never builds up at all.

Wet sanding is good at the early stages. But I'd wet sand with some of the tinted oil you have. Use some solvent to thin it if needed. That way it further feeds the color as you sand off the fuzzies. You don't really want to introduce water at this point. That should have been done on the fresh wood as a wipe down with a wet rag and final 600 to 1000 touch off to cut away any loose fuzzies and prep for the first oil. But doing so now with some fresh paper and the tinted oil mixed with some mineral spirits or low odor paint thinner will also do the job nicely.

If the wood is fairly open grained some will wet sand to create a slurry of fine dust and rub that into the open wood pores and not wipe it away aggressively to act as a wood filler. Depending on the grain of the wood this can work well. If you do this don't flood the surface with the tinted oil wash. Just use a little so it forms the slurry you're after and mostly rub it into the wood, let it fully cure than solvent only wet sand lightly and carry on with oil coats.

Provided you are patient at this point of time where we still don't get much sun and warm temps are a couple of months away you'll find that the finish does build up over time. But not if you're trying to re-coat too soon. As I mentioned get a nose for the odor and when it changes quite noticeably that means it's just about ready. When you notice the change give it to the next day and then do the next coat. Note that I'm NOT talking about the odor of the solvent you might be using or which is mixed in with the more watery mixtures like Danish oil. I'm talking about the oil's smell only. Both untinned BLO and tung oils have this very easily smelled change.

I've used both BLO and Lee Valley's polymerized tung oil. Both are relatively thick oils and after the first couple of coats I use the method of applying only enough to make the stock shiny and rub it in. This usually ends up as 4 to 6 drops on the first couple of times and then 3 to 4 spread all over after that. Also using such minimal amounts means the oil more quickly oxidizes/polymerizes. You don't need or want to rub on lots then wipe it all off. By the time you're down to the very few drops the wood should be all finished with the prep work like sanding and any slurry sanding and filling and clean up from that. The light smear coats are what you use to build up the finish.

Keep in mind too that the finish will polish with time just through handling. My cowboy action shotgun has a lovely mid level sheen now from both handling and going on 10 years of rubbing on a couple of drops of oil for this smeared on re-coating a couple of times a year. The twice a year issue being related to often shooting events in the wet. And from using the guns so often. And it was finished from scratch.

Wax is generally not considered as a very weather resistant finish. If this is a stock which will see harsh conditions I'd focus on getting most of the way there with the oil. BLO if you're patient with lots of coats and LV's polymerized tung oil for the same luster in about 2/3's the number of coats. Plus the final film from tung oil is always rated as more durable to wear compared to BLO. After the prep work and patiently waiting between the next 6 or so smeared on coatings if you want to buff it with a bit of a good paste wax then fine. But stick to regular natural waxes. A lot of the automotive stuff can block you from doing any further oil touch ups.

I'm also a huge fan of giving the end grain in both the action and barrel areas as well as the under the butt plate or recoil pad at least 2 and preferably 3 or 4 applications of oil to seal the end grain. That stops water or gun oil from migrating up the capillary tubes of the end grain and causing the wood under the oil finish to darken from the gun oil. I find it fairly shocking how many stocks never see a lick of finish under these things.
 
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