Cowboy Action shooters - best 45 LC die advice

[tokguy]

Good afternoon all.
Waiting for an 45 LC that is in the mail, Colt New Service. Obviously I'm not going to be getting a high round count on this piece... but I shoot my pistols... if you can't shoot it, why bother?
Did some wrangling for a few brass, but I'm going to have to get them 'rolled up' with something. All I have in the 45 caliber is a 4 die Lee set 45 ACP / AR... I've Lee 250 Grain LC mold that I used for 455 when I had that caliber. Mold isn't a true RN... but I'm not threading them into the loading gate of a thumb buster either.
I'm assuming that the folks who frequent this forum know their way around reloading 45 LC.
Not going to be hotrodding it... that would be silly... the gun is over 100 years new. And the beauty of 45 LC is it's allegedly a 'Hammer' in it's original configuration, why push it to punch paper? Not sure if I'll stay with BP for it or not... I do have the setup for it in that I've lots of BP / BP substitutes.
Any suggestions on this blustery day will be carefully weighed.
Regards
Tokguy

 

[old303]

Lee makes good gear, and especially if you already know your way around a set of their dies in the "other" .45 and presumably have the press that goes with, it's the obvious choice.

If you were wanting the round count, a Dillon Square Deal would be faster, but you say you're not going there, so sticking with Lee is an eminently good plan.

The 250 grain cast bullet is fairly typical, granted usually RNFP but that only makes a difference in levers.

As for powder, I've done them with Unique, Titegroup, 800x, Trail Boss, and FFFG, and they all go bang (that last one a tad differently!). Unique seems to be the go-to powder in this caliber. Consult a loading manual and work up, and in this time of powder shortage you may need to see if you can get anything that matches up with a listed load and try that.

 

[tumbleweeds13]

The New Service was designed for smokeless powder, so I'd definitely lean in that direction. I've used a few different powders and they all work. CAS loads tend to be a bit wimpy to keep the recoil down, so any load data for a cowboy load would be fine. You could shoot cowboy loads in that revolver until the cows came home and it wouldn't do anything negative to it. Nice gun. I used to have one myself. Enjoy

 

[fingers284]

I have used .45 ACP (Lee I think they are) dies to load .45 colt rounds for expediency a few times ( my carbide .45 colt dies were set up in a Dillon tool-head & didn't want to disturb them), you just cant full length resize the cases. I would try a case sized as far as it will go and see if it chambers in your cylinder. The expander ball & the seating die will work as they do with .45 ACP.

If you do purchase .45 colt's, make sure they are carbide sizer, there are still plain steel sizing dies out there

 

[Garand]

Morning Tokguy, you still in the area of the Hat? If so a good source of cast lead bullets is Cactus Plains in Carmichael Saskatchewan. He sells a couple of different types of .45 LC cast lead bullets at $80/1000. As a Cowboy Action shooter I'm using Red Dot over a 200 grain RNFP. My best group with that load so far has been 2 1/2" at 25 yards and my most accurate load chronos at 697 fps. This is a nice mild load for going bang and clang at making holes in paper.

 

[The Cold Lake Kid]

I find Trail Boss works very well for me in my .45 Colts (NMVs) driving a 250 grain lead bullet.
I cut down from 5.6 grs to 5.3 and may try going lower, if this Covid Crap ever ends and I can make it to the range.
I use RCBS dies.

 

[fredfiset]

I've reloaded and shot thousands of 45 colt in the last 14 years. Lee 255RF on top of 5.5 grains of Trail Boss, loaded with a Lee 4-die set - I really like the factory crimp die!
In retrospective, i could have used a bit less powder for CAS but it was an accurate load for me.

 

[tokguy]

So many answers... thank you all.
I suppose I should try my Lee 4 die 45 ACP set before I needlessly throw down coin on another set of dies.
I've already got about 200 250 gr Keith style bullets... but they are in .452 dia... this is a recut 455... I'm really thinking that won't fly. The Carmichael thing is a great suggestion... but I'm pretty sure I'll not shoot a 1000 bullets through this gun. DA timing is gonna be weak... early DA Colts ain't got timing like a S & W.
I had a Colt New Service in 455... didn't really like it. I'm not a large man... 5'10" and 160 pounds... my hands match. The recoil was fine ( I feel sorry for the recoil sensitive folks out there... but pls don't throw down that "I'm smarter now" mantra... that crap don't fly in my world )... but the DA pull is what... 15 lbs? And was built for much larger hands than I.
So the DA timing is of little worry to me.. Old Colt's DA timing is always hooped... they dropped the ball on that one LoL.
I think I'll try the Trailboss option.. got a pound or so of it... it seems so soft to shoot.
I'm a Unique man... but it's awful hard to find these days.
Regards
Tokguy

 

[The Cold Lake Kid]

tokguy:
If you have .45-70 "Buffalo Rifles" to shoot, you should try TB for them as well.
Real nice and accurate without beating your shoulder on a long day.
I'm getting good results with around 15.5 gr (+ or -)TB driving a 350 grain lead bullet at 100 and 200 yards, the current limit of my range.

 

[tokguy]

tokguy:
If you have .45-70 "Buffalo Rifles" to shoot, you should try TB for them as well.
Real nice and accurate without beating your shoulder on a long day.
I'm getting good results with around 15.5 gr (+ or -)TB driving a 350 grain lead bullet at 100 and 200 yards, the current limit of my range.

Never shot a 45-70 in truth. Had an '86 here for years...BP gun though. No dies or components... wasn't gonna Nitro through it.
I've a 38-55...but the bore is so worn that it needs the oversized PL with Unique under it to bump it up into the rifling.
But I've messed with TB...it's a gentle powder for sure

 

[old303]

A pinch of Trail Boss under a 200gr bullet is a very nice .45 Colt load, but note that someone here was reporting that on a Cowboy Action stage with a downhill shot a load like that failed to ignite. Possibly best to have some with a decent dose of Unique for shots like that?

If you're only loading for a revolver, another option is ".45 Cowboy" which has a .45 Colt base but is only as long as .45 ACP (and the same volume, working with the same loading data) so that you can work up lighter loads without having to deal with now-excessive dead volume inside the longer case. Starline makes that brass, and I've seen it listed at Double Tap.

I've heard of cowboys having a lot of fun with .45 lead ball cartridges, since that's the lightest bullet that reliably fills the caliber.

 

[tokguy]

A pinch of Trail Boss under a 200gr bullet is a very nice .45 Colt load, but note that someone here was reporting that on a Cowboy Action stage with a downhill shot a load like that failed to ignite. Possibly best to have some with a decent dose of Unique for shots like that?

If you're only loading for a revolver, another option is ".45 Cowboy" which has a .45 Colt base but is only as long as .45 ACP (and the same volume, working with the same loading data) so that you can work up lighter loads without having to deal with now-excessive dead volume inside the longer case. Starline makes that brass, and I've seen it listed at Double Tap.

I've heard of cowboys having a lot of fun with .45 lead ball cartridges, since that's the lightest bullet that reliably fills the caliber.

I'm already possessing about 50 cases of 45 Schofield cut back and thinned too mimic 455 MK 2. I don't like that 'big jump' between exiting the case and encountering the necked down part of the cylinder. Pressure spike?
I think you have the TB confused with a different powder. Being that it is 'Fluffy' it fills the cases nicely and isn't position sensitive. Now Unique or especially Bullseye... I can see them being position sensitive as they occupy very little space in a 45 LC case

 

[old303]

...
I think you have the TB confused with a different powder. Being that it is 'Fluffy' it fills the cases nicely and isn't position sensitive. Now Unique or especially Bullseye... I can see them being position sensitive as they occupy very little space in a 45 LC case

No, I can assure you I know what Trail Boss is and how it works, and fluffy little grey donuts though it be, it doesn't come anywhere near filling the case when it's me running the machine making bunnyfart loads. In contrast with that, when I'm using Unique I'm doing much closer to full-power loads. Both loadings work fine in my experience.

 

[tokguy]

No, I can assure you I know what Trail Boss is and how it works, and fluffy little grey donuts though it be, it doesn't come anywhere near filling the case when it's me running the machine making bunnyfart loads. In contrast with that, when I'm using Unique I'm doing much closer to full-power loads. Both loadings work fine in my experience.

Not arguing...honestly curious. Why is TB position sensitive? Is it harder to ignite?

 

[Rugerman]

I would recommend the RCBS Cowboy Dies. They include a carbide sizer die and two different expander plugs. They are the usual RCBS quality. I have loaded several hundred 45 LC's with them with very good results.

 

[Janeau]

I would recommend the RCBS Cowboy Dies. They include a carbide sizer die and two different expander plugs. They are the usual RCBS quality. I have loaded several hundred 45 LC's with them with very good results.

+1 on RCBS Cowboy dies set. I use them in 30/30, 45 Colt and 45/70.
For lead bullet, hard to beat. The second contender are the Lyman M dies - special stepped expander for lead bullet.
Like they say - you can do it the easy way or the hard way. Using those make it easy. They are proven and they work.

 

[The Cold Lake Kid]

Question for you using the Cowboy dies.
What is the difference between them and the standard RCBS dies?
I've loaded several thousand .45 Colt loads with no issues using the standard RCBS .45 Colt Carbide dies, but I am curious and wondering if there is any advantage for me to switch.
Thanks

 

[fingers284]

Not arguing...honestly curious. Why is TB position sensitive? Is it harder to ignite?

I can't answer "why" but I am probably the guy Old303 is referring too and can verify that T.B. is very position sensitive with lighter loads. I used light "cowboy" loads of TB in in my .45's for years with no trouble...then our range opened up a new bank of facades overlooking a deep ravine Where we were always shooting down hill. One of these new facades was an elevated palisade affair so the downhill gradient was even worse. This is where my problems became very evident. I had pistols & rifle go POOF instead of bang on a regular basis and totally lock up the pistols with unburnt powder. I continued to use TB on the flatter stages but for that palisade, I had to carry a few rounds of 7625 or titegroup powdered rounds.


Edited to add; I tried LR mag primers with still the same results.

 

[Rugerman]

Question for you using the Cowboy dies.
What is the difference between them and the standard RCBS dies?
I've loaded several thousand .45 Colt loads with no issues using the standard RCBS .45 Colt Carbide dies, but I am curious and wondering if there is any advantage for me to switch.
Thanks

The only real difference is that the Cowboy dies come with 2 different expanders, one for lead loads and one for jacketed. No real reason to change from your present dies unless you are getting into CAS with light lead loads. They also have 2 seating plugs for different bullet configurations.

 

[The Cold Lake Kid]

OK, Thanks Rugerman.
I only load and shoot .45s (NMV and rifles) for CAS now and use lead exclusively, so I'll stick with what I got.
I like the feel of a bit of recoil and avoid mouse-phart loads LOL