The Best Looking Boys in the Neighbourhood

stencollector

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I purchased this rifle about 4 years back. It came with a demilled barrel, and a Kreiger 50 cal partly finished barrel blank. I ran it out to a gunsmith a couple provinces over who does a lot of work with 50s, and picked it up again about 9 months later. To my disatisfaction, the barrel was straight like a telephone pole, lacking the curves and tapers that make this a ###y looking rifle. The barrel was so heavy, that the gun wanted to fall forward from it's bipod when in the prone position. I fired it at last years Battle of the Bulge. The gun would not accept rounds from the magazine, or from the top of the rifle, so that was another problem I was going to have to work out.
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This is a photo of three antitank rifles during last years Battle of the Bulge match. Mine is the one to the far right wearing it's action covers. The other two are a PTRD and a Boys mk2, with the flat version of the muzzle brake and the later bipod.

I had a local gunsmith remove the barrel for me a few months back. The smith who did the work mentioned he had used red loctite on the threads, and that heat would be required to remove the barrel. A propane torch warmed up the receiver, and the barrel was off in no time.

I just completed an evening course of basic lathe operation, so decided to give the tapering of the barrel a shot myself. My lathe has a 40" bed, and it was a tight fit getting the barrel on there in an area where my taper attachment could do it's work.
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Above is a photo of the end of the barrels. The groove seen at the top does not seem to serve any purpose other than for style. These I had to hand cut.
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Above is the turned barrel next to the demilled barrel. Some of the overall measurements are a bit out, but overall it looks good. I cleaned up the remaining loctite off the threads, and found that when I hand threaded the barrel on to the receiver, it went slightly further than it was supposed to, and the extractor would foul into the barrel. So I toyed with some verious shims, and found that a 1-1/2 thou shim resulted in a reasonable amount of torque to align the barrel.
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Barrel about to go on. Loctite has been installed onto the threads, and the brass shim I made can be seen in the photo.
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Installation of the barrel onto the upper receiver
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There was a bit of an alignment problem as well with the trunnion onto the keyway grooves cut into the barrel. The grooves seemed to be a touch out of plane, and I had to file the inner edges of the trunnion to make sure the gun would go back into battery.
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In the above photo you can see where the dummy 50 cal round wouldn't fit into the chamber, as it got caught up on some ribs inside the receiver. The 50 is a touch longer than the .55 cal boys ammo. A few seconds with a dremel fixed that problem, and the bullet feeds fine from the magazine now.
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Above photo shows the receiver with a small amount removed to allow feeding of the 50 cal round.
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This photo is a bit dark, but it shows the underside of the rifle. You have to pry the buffer spring before you can bolt the upper and lower receivers together.
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Here is the completed rifle, along with some of it's accessories. There is the chest of magazines (I only have 6.....I still need to find 2 more to fill the chest), the muzzle covers, and the action cover. There is also a 55 drill round and a .22 sub cal round.

I'll host up a couple more photos tommorrow. My photobucket account seems to have jammed up on me.
 
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Very nice! When was your rifle made?

I'm writing a paper on the Boys for one of my classes, hopefully I'll dig up some cool information in Ottawa :)
 
There was a 39 stamped on the barrel, so my bet is 1939. By 1943 the Boys rifle had really become obsolete, and been replaced by the PIAT. Armour was generally far enough advanced that the Boys was redundant. Exceptions were Italian and Japanese armour, both of which were susceptable to the Boys penetration. BSA and Inglis were the main suppliers of this rifle, and about 80,000 were built. Considering the quantity built, they are fairly rare to find. There are about 30 registered in Canada. Most of the Inglis ones have US PROPERTY on the side. They were likely intended for the Pacific theater. Supposedly the US marines had them in a slightly shortened form and the already brutal recoil got much worse.
The Boys was used in the African campaign, and if you read any of the books on Dieppe, the Boys rifles came onto the beach, and one was quite successfully used from the casino against the German positions.
I talked to one veteran who said that they had them in the navy mounted on the boats for shooting mines during the D-day landings, but I have never seen documented proof of this.

Heres a couple more photos.
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With the action cover installed, there is a large pad located underneath so the rifle can be carried on the soldior's shoulder. (try and say that 5 times quick)
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Here is a no4mk1T next to the boys for a size comparison.
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Above are .303, a .55, and a .50BMG training rounds together for size comparison. The extra length of the 50 can clearly be seen. I still have to work out a problem in the magazine to enable feeding from the mags, as presently the rounds get caught up after the first round has been fed.
 
Fascinating

Great post...informative

is it for sale?

Nope, not now and hopefully not ever. I am currently selling a few of my holy grails to finance a rather large aquisition (more details later) and even gave up my LB sniper to partially finance it. But the Boys will definitely stay. It is a needed accessopry for my Bren Gun Carrier.

That last couple of Boys rifles that I saw change hands here in Canada in the last 2 years sold for $6K to $7K. I have a bit less than that into mine. Mind you, the accessories like the action cover and the extra mags didn't come cheap. But when it comes to Boys rifles items, you can either buy them, or else ponder the price, whish you hadn't pondered it, and wait a couple more years for the item to show up.
 
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There was a 39 stamped on the barrel, so my bet is 1939. By 1943 the Boys rifle had really become obsolete, and been replaced by the PIAT. Armour was generally far enough advanced that the Boys was redundant. Exceptions were Italian and Japanese armour, both of which were susceptable to the Boys penetration. BSA and Inglis were the main suppliers of this rifle, and about 80,000 were built. Considering the quantity built, they are fairly rare to find. There are about 30 registered in Canada. Most of the Inglis ones have US PROPERTY on the side. They were likely intended for the Pacific theater. Supposedly the US marines had them in a slightly shortened form and the already brutal recoil got much worse.
The Boys was used in the African campaign, and if you read any of the books on Dieppe, the Boys rifles came onto the beach, and one was quite successfully used from the casino against the German positions.
I talked to one veteran who said that they had them in the navy mounted on the boats for shooting mines during the D-day landings, but I have never seen documented proof of this.
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Beautiful rifle :)

If I remember correctly the number produced was closer to 69 000 - I can double check later once this other paper is finished. Think I got it out of Six Years of War, but I could be wrong. Everything is sort of running together in my brain!

I haven't come across any histories on Dieppe that mention the Boys yet - mainly been reading the regimental histories. Do you know of any titles? It may be very useful to me. I did come across a tidbit that British soldiers using them in Africa used them as anti-personnel weapons - they shot rocks and made them explode.

The cut-down Boys were originally for paratroopers who wanted something for anti-tank defence, but they found the recoil was too stiff without the reducer on the muzzle.

I've also been looking high and low for expected armour penetration data for the Boys, finding mixed and contradictory results and none of them with nearly enough information for my purposes.

So on a side note, if anyone has ANY book titles or documentation relating to the Boys and it's use in battle or penetration of the round please do let me know :D Ammo was made by Dominion Arsenals so hopefully I can find some particulars at the archives. Unfortunately Operations Research is not a very popular field in history :(
 
indifferent check out scale model stores the Boys is/was a staple in British army infantry kits and the material to back them up usually has some info

plus iirc in some of the historys of early 50 cal sniping there were references to US (Marines maybe?) forces rebarelling the Boys with 50BMG barrels and sniping across rivers? channels? at Japanese (WWII) or North Korean (Korea)
while they bathed in and on beaches wherethay thought they were safe from snipers....
 
Beautiful rifle :)

If I remember correctly the number produced was closer to 69 000 - I can double check later once this other paper is finished. Think I got it out of Six Years of War, but I could be wrong. Everything is sort of running together in my brain!


I haven't come across any histories on Dieppe that mention the Boys yet - mainly been reading the regimental histories. Do you know of any titles? It may be very useful to me. I did come across a tidbit that British soldiers using them in Africa used them as anti-personnel weapons - they shot rocks and made them explode.

The cut-down Boys were originally for paratroopers who wanted something for anti-tank defence, but they found the recoil was too stiff without the reducer on the muzzle.

I've also been looking high and low for expected armour penetration data for the Boys, finding mixed and contradictory results and none of them with nearly enough information for my purposes.

So on a side note, if anyone has ANY book titles or documentation relating to the Boys and it's use in battle or penetration of the round please do let me know :D Ammo was made by Dominion Arsenals so hopefully I can find some particulars at the archives. Unfortunately Operations Research is not a very popular field in history :(

You are likely right on the numbers produced. I was going by memory from an old Janes Digest years back.

I have also run into the the anecdote that Donny Fenn mentions about the US using them in Korea for long range harrasment. I have the book around here somewhere, I'll post the name here once I find it.

I believe it was in Gen Whitaker's book on Dieppe (Dieppe, tragedy to triumph) where he mentions shooting German positions with the Boys from the Casino area. I'll check to confirm. There is a photo in that book of a bunch of Brens and a couple Boys gathered up by the Germans after the raid was finished. It's anti personal qualities were evident during that encounter.

I have fired the origional Boyes during matches here in Shilo, and penetration wasn't bad. We lined up a bunch of 3/4" targets at 100 yds to test the penetration. The bullet went through the first target and was sticking out of the second target. There was a bit of 1/4" reinforcing behind the plate that may have prevented it from making it through.

Of course, any thread on the Boys rifle would be incomplete without a link to the Disney Cdn Army training series on the Boys rifle.
Below are the links to pt1, 2, and pt3 in that order. Part one stars hitler himself, and is good for a laugh. Hopefully the troops at the time were not suckered in to believing the performance attributed to the rifle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rODm7HF5lFU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9lIO8AL3ds&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?=dsifcQnSv94&mode=related&search=
 
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You are likely right on the numbers produced. I was going by mamory from an old Janes Digest years back.

I have also run into the the anecdote that Donny Fenn mentions about the US using them in Korea for long range harrasment. I have the book around here somewhere, I'll post the name here once I find it.

I believe it was in Gen Whitaker's book on Dieppe (Dieppe, tragedy to triumph) where he mentions shooting German positions with the Boys from the Casino area. I'll check to confirm. There is a photo in that book of a bunch of Brens and a couple Boys gathered up by the Germans after the raid was finished. It's anti personal qualities were evident during that encounter.

I have fired the origional Boyes during matches here in Shilo, and penetration wasn't bad. We lined up a bunch of 3/4" targets at 100 yds to test the penetration. The bullet went through the first target and was sticking out of the second target. There was a bit of 1/4" reinforcing behind the plate that may have prevented it from making it through.

Of course, any thread on the Boys rifle would be incomplete without a link to the Disney Cdn Army training series on the Boys rifle.
Below are the links to pt1, 2, and pt3 in that order. Part one stars hitler himself, and is good for a laugh. Hopefully the troops at the time were not suckered in to believing the performance attributed to the rifle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rODm7HF5lFU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9lIO8AL3ds&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?=dsifcQnSv94&mode=related&search=

I'll check out Whitaker's book, thanks for the suggestion :)

Books seem to report between 20 and 25mm at 300 yards. They do not specify the ammo though (tungsten or steel core? Mk 1 or Mk II?) nor what type of plating, the angle of impact etc. The penetration and range numbers vary by book, so I wanted to find an actual army assessment, if they did ever test it.

Those videos are great, that's what gave me the idea for the paper :D
 
As I recall, the Boys manual gives penetration details at 300 and 500 yds, along with the angles of incidence.

I hope so - I'll be going to the Directorate of History and Heritage for DND as they have the manuals :) I'm still hoping to find an actual OR report, so I've sent some feelers out to see if anyone knows of any.
 
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