6mm CM

[rifleman762]

Mostly because the high BC bullets are basically thin jacket target bullets and perform ####ty on game. The only bonded LR bullet I'm aware of is the ABLR, and it's even a fairly ####ty performer on game.

Define "sh**ty" performance. You don't need a thick, bonded, impact-extruded jacket to kill a deer. In fact, I stopped using premium, controlled expansion bullets on deer because they kill slower than faster expanding bullets. Given that high-BC bullets are heavy for caliber, they can afford to lose some mass, cause lots of tissue damage, and still have enough bullet shank to create an exit wound. I've never hunted with a Berger but I have used ELD-X on animals from moose (200gr 30-cal) to bears to deer. No, it doesn't punch heavy bones as well as a Barnes. But it definitely kills things fast when used appropriately.

 

[rifleman762]

And, FWIW, you can still use an Accubond or Barnes or Scirocco in a Creedmoor. The faster twist does give you more options. And if you want to use a Barnes, you can try out the lower-drag LRX. I plan to get some of those, too.

Fast twist 243 AI, though...now there's a sweet cartridge! ;-)

 

[todbartell]

95gr LRX from a 6mm Creed @ 3150 fps, no 243 can compare

 

[rifleman762]

95gr LRX from a 6mm Creed @ 3150 fps, no 243 can compare

It's a good one! I got some 77gr .224" LRX for my 22 Creedmoor.

 

[Hitzy]

95gr LRX from a 6mm Creed @ 3150 fps, no 243 can compare

I'd say a 90gr Accubond at 3250fps out of a 243 would do the same job at farther distance without concern if they will expand or not, LRX doesn't exactly have mind blowing BC either.

 

[Hitzy]

L

Define "sh**ty" performance. You don't need a thick, bonded, impact-extruded jacket to kill a deer. In fact, I stopped using premium, controlled expansion bullets on deer because they kill slower than faster expanding bullets. Given that high-BC bullets are heavy for caliber, they can afford to lose some mass, cause lots of tissue damage, and still have enough bullet shank to create an exit wound. I've never hunted with a Berger but I have used ELD-X on animals from moose (200gr 30-cal) to bears to deer. No, it doesn't punch heavy bones as well as a Barnes. But it definitely kills things fast when used appropriately.

A 200gr 30cal is a little out of the scope of discussion comparing to 243cal for deer.
Cup/core that size perform decently.

 

[rifleman762]

L


A 200gr 30cal is a little out of the scope of discussion comparing to 243cal for deer.
Cup/core that size perform decently.

Yeah, I used it on a 1500 lb moose. Point is that the ELD-X, in general, is a decent cup and core bullet when it comes to terminal ballistics. Use a heavy for caliber bullet (as low drag bullets ARE, fyi) and they work great. A 100+ gr cup and core .243" bullet on a deer is plenty enough.

 

[rifleman762]

I'd say a 90gr Accubond at 3250fps out of a 243 would do the same job at farther distance without concern if they will expand or not, LRX doesn't exactly have mind blowing BC either.

Comparing factory ammunition, the 243 Win 90gr Accubond Nosler ammo is rated at 3100 fps and runs about 3050 from my 22" barrel - not bad. I still have an ammo can full of it . But the factory 6mm Creedmoor 95gr LRX claims an extra 50 fps and has a noticeably higher BC: 0.436 vs 0.376. Like I've been saying: a notch above.

If you want to compare handloads, I'm sure someone out there has stoked up the Creedmoor, as well.

 

[dan belisle]

Comparing factory ammunition, the 243 Win 90gr Accubond Nosler ammo is rated at 3100 fps and runs about 3050 from my 22" barrel - not bad. I still have an ammo can full of it . But the factory 6mm Creedmoor 95gr LRX claims an extra 50 fps and has a noticeably higher BC: 0.436 vs 0.376. Like I've been saying: a notch above.

If you want to compare handloads, I'm sure someone out there has stoked up the Creedmoor, as well.

Smaller case capacity in the CM. All else being equal, at equal pressures the 243 will be faster. - dan

 

[scourge18a]

It all depends on your intended purpose and what is "better" to you.
To me the main advantage is that the heavier bullets do better in the wind. Look below for wind adjustment at 500 yards.
If you have a rangefinder, then the drop doesn't really matter, but wind can be difficult so any help there is nice.
There is no question that the 6mm Creedmoor has a long range advantage due to the ability to easily load magazine length, usually comes with factory twist rates that support heavy projectiles and you can get the similar velocities compared to the 243. There are other wildcats available if you handload or want a custom rifle like the 6mm SLR and 6mm-284.

22" Barreled 6mm Creedmoor
105 Berger Hybrid Muzzle velocity 3042 fps


19" Barreled 6mm Creedmoor
Sierra 110 grain muzzle velocity 2815


22" Barreled 243
100 grain Winchester power point muzzle velocity 2960
There are better bullets, but this gives a weight and speed comparison also. Anything heavier may not be Fully stable in a 9.25 twist.

 

[todbartell]

I'd say a 90gr Accubond at 3250fps out of a 243 would do the same job at farther distance without concern if they will expand or not, LRX doesn't exactly have mind blowing BC either.

Litz tested the G1 BC of the 90gr Accubond @ .355, the minimum impact speed for expansion as per Nosler is 1800 fps. The Barnes BC is .436 G1 and Barnes claims minimum speed is 1700 fps

Smaller case capacity in the CM. All else being equal, at equal pressures the 243 will be faster. - dan

The 243 has 4% more case capacity than a 6mm Creedmoor. That is before a bullet is seated. When both are loaded to 2.8" OAL with a 103gr ELDx bullet, the net case capacity of the 243 is 1% more. That will give around 8 fps more velocity when both are loaded to the same pressures/powders

 

[SuperCub]

Smaller case capacity in the CM. All else being equal, at equal pressures the 243 will be faster. - dan

The 243 has 4% more case capacity than a 6mm Creedmoor. That is before a bullet is seated. When both are loaded to 2.8" OAL with a 103gr ELDx bullet, the net case capacity of the 243 is 1% more. That will give around 8 fps more velocity when both are loaded to the same pressures/powders

That was my thought and main premise of my argument here. I held that the 243 would be at least the same as the 6CM for velocity, maybe a tad better with similar bullets, pressures bbl lengths and proper OAL to the lands.

I normally do not partake in these debates, but the following quote earlier in the thread caught my interest and needed further discussion.

My 6mm Creed has double the energy at 500 yards and half the wind drift of a 95 grain .243 factory load, with similar recoil.
They aren’t close unless the differences are over your head.
If you want a gun to shoot deer at 200 yards or less you can buy any gun off the rack, none of it matters. But to say a factory .243 is the same as a 6 Creed just shows a lack of understanding of exterior ballistics and real world rifle performance.

 

[8 ball]

or this?
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...on-700-BDL-Varmint-Special-6mm-Mint-Condition

really, the 6CM has only been out for a relatively short time as measured in cartridge life, less than a decade, I'd bet almost all are in some form of competition rifle?

No, don't get a 243 instead! The 6 Creed is faster with similar bullet weights and has the ability to handle heavier bullets. Chamber tolerances are also tighter for the Creed leading to better overall accuracy than is typically seen with the 243. I do not say this as a 243 hater, I say this as someone who has both and finds the Creed the better cartridge.

 

[scourge18a]

The only reason in my opinion to get a 243 over the 6mm Creedmoor is ammo availability and more hunting load options. That being said, people get too hung up on "hunting/bonded" bullets, but I get if you've had a bad experience. I've seen target bullets and bonded bullets hit bone and fragment causing issues. If you keep it to the front of the chest cavity, by the heart, the chances of a fragment hitting guts isn't really a concern. I'd recommend taking whatever load you have the most experience with and you have the DOPE if we are talking hunting.

For a hunting rifle in either 243 or 6mm, I like my Savage's. I'm not worried about banging up a plastic stock in the bush (I put miles on) and every one I've had has been a shooter, from 17, 22, 243, 6mm, 308 mine have all shot well and the triggers are decent from the factory.

 

[LittleBoyLefty]

The 243 has 4% more case capacity than a 6mm Creedmoor. That is before a bullet is seated. When both are loaded to 2.8" OAL with a 103gr ELDx bullet, the net case capacity of the 243 is 1% more. That will give around 8 fps more velocity when both are loaded to the same pressures/powders

Ah. Yup. Difficult concept tho...

 

[Hitzy]

I know it's a little sideways, but between the 3 newer cartridges I've been playing with (6 & 6.5cm and 6.5prc), the PRC is my favorite...shoots really well, respectable velocities, and recoil is mild, the 6mm I'm still interested in trying out to 1000 to see how it does with the VLD's, the 6.5cm never did much for me as I have been shooting 6.5x55 for decades, it's literally the same thing in a short action and action length in a bolt gun is the lowest of my priorities for target shooting or hunting.
It's still hard to find components for the PRC and 6cm, even dies I ordered from Brownells as Canadian stock was absent.

 

[huntingfamily]

So many cartridges, not enough time...

 

[JEC]

I’ve never had a 243 Win or any desire for the 6 CM ... but see they are close to being ballistic twins for reloaders. If I was choosing among the two for a build, I would go with the CM because of its longer neck (good for a wide variety of bullet lengths) and steeper shoulder (less growth in brass which should result in the better longevity of brass). If I was building a take-off from a 6.5 it would be based on the 6.5 x 47L. The 6CM case looks pretty much of a copy cat of that cartridge design only about 2mm longer.
The only 6mm I run is the 6 Dasher which is a proven performer at intermediate long range (600 yds).

 

[Buckmastr]

Can you even buy a factory chambered hunting or sporting firearm chambered in 6creedmoor anymore?

As a custom build with a custom twist and chambering job, there is no reason to not go 243 Win.

 

[chuck nelson]

Can you even buy a factory chambered hunting or sporting firearm chambered in 6creedmoor anymore?

As a custom build with a custom twist and chambering job, there is no reason to not go 243 Win.

We know, we know. It’s on its way out. You’ve said it what? Three times now?