Scout Rifle Build Questions

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DES0LAT0R

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I have been thinking about doing this for quite some time, and I have been really looking into it in the past few days. I have been wanting a scout rifle build that is clip fed, has peep sights and is chambered in 308. This has actually proven way more difficult than I thought. There aren't that many bolt action 308's with peep sights that are charged with clips. I have seen Lee Enfields that meet this, but they are hard to find and quite expensive.

So I have been looking into other options. I know there are Mauser action rifles that are chambered in 7.62x51, however would it be difficult to add a rear peep to them? I know a lot of people have added a rear scope base to the receiver, is there any sights that would work well to install there instead. The other issue is that even these are difficult to find. That got me thinking, I have seen several M96 Mausers chambered in 30-06. Would it be possible to pick up a cheap sporter and have it rebarreled for 308 or would it just be worth making a scout rifle in 30-06 (I know this was not the original idea).

Is there any other ideas that anyone has tried? I know none of the "scout rifles" manufactured today are charged with clips, unless there is one I am missing.
 
keith mokry said:
Would a ruger gunsite scout rifle work for you. It has all the options already
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I have looked at these, the only thing is as far as I am aware there is no way of charging the rifle with clips. I have a Lee Enfield no5 that I love and I love how it charges with clips. I just don't want to lug it around through the woods and damage it seeing as its a 76 year old rifle and they aren't the easiest to find either.
 
DES0LAT0R said:
I have looked at these, the only thing is as far as I am aware there is no way of charging the rifle with clips. I have a Lee Enfield no5 that I love and I love how it charges with clips. I just don't want to lug it around through the woods and damage it seeing as its a 76 year old rifle and they aren't the easiest to find either.
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Pretty much the last rifle design that uses a clip loading system that I know of would be like the M14, You can get clips to load AR-15 mags but not while its in the rifle. The magazine replaced the feeder clip design. As for scout rifles there is a few like Mossberg uses AR mags, Ruger and Savage use AICS mags, CZ has a 7.62x39 scout type rifle.
 
DES0LAT0R said:
I have been thinking about doing this for quite some time, and I have been really looking into it in the past few days. I have been wanting a scout rifle build that is clip fed, has peep sights and is chambered in 308. This has actually proven way more difficult than I thought. There aren't that many bolt action 308's with peep sights that are charged with clips. I have seen Lee Enfields that meet this, but they are hard to find and quite expensive.

So I have been looking into other options. I know there are Mauser action rifles that are chambered in 7.62x51, however would it be difficult to add a rear peep to them? I know a lot of people have added a rear scope base to the receiver, is there any sights that would work well to install there instead. The other issue is that even these are difficult to find. That got me thinking, I have seen several M96 Mausers chambered in 30-06. Would it be possible to pick up a cheap sporter and have it rebarreled for 308 or would it just be worth making a scout rifle in 30-06 (I know this was not the original idea).

Is there any other ideas that anyone has tried? I know none of the "scout rifles" manufactured today are charged with clips, unless there is one I am missing.
Click to expand...

The most intelligent rear sight on an Mauser is the Spanish FR7 or FR8 rifle in 7.62NATO. Short and handy, except for the straight bolt handle. I had one for a while, and sold it to concentrate on the core of the collecting interest.
 
Any particular reason that you want to use clips instead of magazines ? A magazine is simply a superior system and clip system rifles pretty much ended with the SKS.
 
Gatehouse said:
Any particular reason that you want to use clips instead of magazines ? A magazine is simply a superior system and clip system rifles pretty much ended with the SKS.
Click to expand...

I simply enjoy them, always have. Im pretty fond of the older rifles and I just like how easy the extra clips are to carry.
 
Scout rifle as a bunch of specs is an outdated marketing gimmick. The spirit of the idea is way more important. Copper wrote in a great detail about WHY things need to be a certain way, but starting use cases to mechanical devices, not the other way around. It has nothing to do with clips, but with ability to reload as fast as possible with minimum weight. It is a wrong way of thinking that scout rifle needs clips because Cooper wrote analysis of WHAT WAS AT HAND and saw clip top loading to be faster than a single loading on an INTERNAL magazine.

Any bolt action with magazines, especially 10-15 rounds magazine are faster to reload and have more firepower than any top loading clips.

Same goes to long eye relieve scopes. They are not magical in any way. They happened to be lighter and faster to acquire 30-40 years ago when Jeff was evaluating options AVAILABLE on the market. There is ZERO reason to stick to forward scope and clip loading just because it was slightly better given commonly available options half a century ago. It is like sticking to Brown Bess because it was top level tech at some point in history.

I'm sorry to say, but this is all fallacy. Copper wrote clear as day on what matters for the USE CASE, you should follow that. If any gear today is better than any gear which was available before you should understand the intent and choose better option.

"Scout rifle" is the best rifle you can make for a use case of "I'm alone, for a long time, I need to do all the things". So it has to be:
  • Light - because you carry stuff for a long time. The lighter you make it the better
  • Short - because it is handy and you need handy a lot to move a lot
  • Most common ammo - because you there is no air drops to supply you
  • Effective against big game - because you are all alone
  • Fast at short range - because short range firefight is the most dangerous and fast is the key at short range
  • High firepower and fast reload - because it matters at short range a lot
  • Preferably ok at mid range - because you might need it, but only if it does not impact all the above.

From all this, clips are #### vs few 10-15 round detachable magazines. True 1x LPVO is faster than any low power scout scope. Top open action and single loading has zero real benefit against bigger faster changing detachable magazines.

You might be chasing a ghost.
 
One point against detachable magazines is that they protrude below the rifle right where I want to wrap my hand around it to carry at the balance point.
Another point against is that they tend to get lost or forgotten.

With a fixed box magazine, if you have any part of the rifle you usually have all of it.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
The most intelligent rear sight on an Mauser is the Spanish FR7 or FR8 rifle in 7.62NATO. Short and handy, except for the straight bolt handle. I had one for a while, and sold it to concentrate on the core of the collecting interest.
Click to expand...

Thank you for actually answering my question. I understand that detachable magazines are better, but I enjoy using clips. I have seen the fr8, it's just another one of those rifles hard to find. I'll keep looking.
 
owlowl said:
Scout rifle as a bunch of specs is an outdated marketing gimmick. The spirit of the idea is way more important. Copper wrote in a great detail about WHY things need to be a certain way, but starting use cases to mechanical devices, not the other way around. It has nothing to do with clips, but with ability to reload as fast as possible with minimum weight. It is a wrong way of thinking that scout rifle needs clips because Cooper wrote analysis of WHAT WAS AT HAND and saw clip top loading to be faster than a single loading on an INTERNAL magazine.

Any bolt action with magazines, especially 10-15 rounds magazine are faster to reload and have more firepower than any top loading clips.

Same goes to long eye relieve scopes. They are not magical in any way. They happened to be lighter and faster to acquire 30-40 years ago when Jeff was evaluating options AVAILABLE on the market. There is ZERO reason to stick to forward scope and clip loading just because it was slightly better given commonly available options half a century ago. It is like sticking to Brown Bess because it was top level tech at some point in history.

I'm sorry to say, but this is all fallacy. Copper wrote clear as day on what matters for the USE CASE, you should follow that. If any gear today is better than any gear which was available before you should understand the intent and choose better option.

"Scout rifle" is the best rifle you can make for a use case of "I'm alone, for a long time, I need to do all the things". So it has to be:
  • Light - because you carry stuff for a long time. The lighter you make it the better
  • Short - because it is handy and you need handy a lot to move a lot
  • Most common ammo - because you there is no air drops to supply you
  • Effective against big game - because you are all alone
  • Fast at short range - because short range firefight is the most dangerous and fast is the key at short range
  • High firepower and fast reload - because it matters at short range a lot
  • Preferably ok at mid range - because you might need it, but only if it does not impact all the above.

From all this, clips are #### vs few 10-15 round detachable magazines. True 1x LPVO is faster than any low power scout scope. Top open action and single loading has zero real benefit against bigger faster changing detachable magazines.

You might be chasing a ghost.
Click to expand...

Ok, take the scout concept out of it. I wanted a 308 with peep sights that's charged with clips. I get its outdated and I don't need it to check off every box for a scout rifle. I just used the term scout rifle because thats what best fits what Im trying to do. I have other rifles with detachable magazines that yes, they are quicker. I just want a rifle that meets the 3 things that I mentioned.
 
9.3mauser said:
One point against detachable magazines is that they protrude below the rifle right where I want to wrap my hand around it to carry at the balance point.
Another point against is that they tend to get lost or forgotten.

With a fixed box magazine, if you have any part of the rifle you usually have all of it.
Click to expand...

The other thing with them is they tend to be quite expensive. For the price of 1 magazine I can get probably 20-30 clips. My no5 mags go for over $50. Bought 20 clips for the same price.
 
XS Sights makes a few options that would work. One is a dedicated Mauser sight.

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The other is a "backup" sight that clamps onto a weaver style base.

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Talley also makes a backup peep that clamps onto their bases for detachable rings, but they require quite a high front sight in my experience.
 

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A No. 4 Lee Enfield has the rear aperture sight to start with, and loads using chargers. A scope base can be barrel mounted for a long eye relief scope. There are oodles of sported No. 4s to be had and prices are still reasonable. I started thinking about such a rifle some years ago, even got the scope mount. It is a sleeve that fits over the Nock's Form, and is secured with bonding agent and screws as desired. Still might put one together. Lots of Lee Enfield parts to play with. Far easier to stay with .303, which for all practical purposes will do anything .308 will.
All military Mauser actions are set up for charger loading. An already sported one in 7.62 might turn up. If a new barrel has to be fitted to an action, the price leaps up. With a forward mounted scope, bolt handle alterations are unnecessary. I think Williams peep sights are still made. Require drilling and tapping two holes on the right side of the rear bridge.
 
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In a firefight, protruding mags prevent you from hunkering down into prone position as low as a what a clip-fed rifle could allow. Mags can also get lost. There is no one end all be all system. However, for the OP, I would look seriously at remaining inventories of CZ Range rifles. Yes, they are mag fed, or a CZ synthetic with fixed box mag and iron sights. 20 inch barrels, iron sights and quite durable. Or, as above, build a proper rifle from a donor M98 where most of the work has already been done.
 
Once you go Steyr Scout 308, all others will be different, the JC concept shine at it's best. I highly reccomend the Steyr Scout 308... Or any other caliber. JP. YMMV.
 
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