Scout Rifle Build Questions
- Thread starter DES0LAT0R
- Start date
I totally agree in principle. However, it is nice to note that steyr has double stack 2 column feed magazines, which are easier to load than most common AICS.
It is also I think amazingly undervalued feature to have 2 position magazine latch with ability to have inserted but not feeding magazine, essentially magazine cutoff. However it could be a problem if you are not used to it.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
I have read Richard Mann's book on the Scout rifle concept. I still want to make one - I have the Clifton Scout mount apparatus from Brownells that gets epoxied onto the chamber area of a Mauser barrel to attach the scope. Warne Quick Release very low rings. I intend to try for a forward Intermediate Eye Relief scope - I have a 2.75 power Burris Scout scope for that project. I also have an XS aperture sight to drill and tap onto rear bridge of a Mauser. I also have a couple of new, never used Ramline Synthetic stocks for Mauser 98 - like what the Clifton kit used to be based on - I won't have the integral bipod legs that tuck up into the fore stock end, though. Hemming and hawing - I have a 1950-ish FN military Mauser - factory done in 30-06 - I may go with that one, because I have a supply of chargers for it.
But, had read, possibly in Richard Mann's writing or critiques of it, that the entire "Scout rifle" concept was probably Jeff Cooper's solution to a problem that had not existed for 100 years, at that time!! The idea that a lone rifleman would be wandering around in the wild country - relying only on stealth and what he could carry, feeding and defending himself, without re-supply or outside support, is likely very much a fantasy, today. Creates no end of interesting discussion and argument over some brownish liquid, no doubt. I still want to make one, though... You know, just in case it works a bit better than any of dozens of other readily available rifles and cartridges would...
From what I gathered, the idea was most definitely not to get into a "fire fight" - if caught, was to be "good enough" to get yourself out of there in one piece. So being able to maintain some sort of sustained rate of fire had some merit in the concept, but was not really a significant point - can read similar in Don Heath's writings - he preferred to carry his Husqvarna 9.3x62 - took care of most business where he was, and allowed him to maintain a sufficient rate of fire if caught up by poacher's ambush. I think when he went after them specifically, he and / or his guys were using FN's. One particular picture in his book shows a Cape Buffalo that he had to stop - with hard point ammo from an FN - shots were over the head into the spine. Where he was, what they were doing - might have set out for poachers, but Cape Buffalo got cranky and interfered with the plan - gotta be able to deal with whatever shows up.
But, had read, possibly in Richard Mann's writing or critiques of it, that the entire "Scout rifle" concept was probably Jeff Cooper's solution to a problem that had not existed for 100 years, at that time!! The idea that a lone rifleman would be wandering around in the wild country - relying only on stealth and what he could carry, feeding and defending himself, without re-supply or outside support, is likely very much a fantasy, today. Creates no end of interesting discussion and argument over some brownish liquid, no doubt. I still want to make one, though... You know, just in case it works a bit better than any of dozens of other readily available rifles and cartridges would...
From what I gathered, the idea was most definitely not to get into a "fire fight" - if caught, was to be "good enough" to get yourself out of there in one piece. So being able to maintain some sort of sustained rate of fire had some merit in the concept, but was not really a significant point - can read similar in Don Heath's writings - he preferred to carry his Husqvarna 9.3x62 - took care of most business where he was, and allowed him to maintain a sufficient rate of fire if caught up by poacher's ambush. I think when he went after them specifically, he and / or his guys were using FN's. One particular picture in his book shows a Cape Buffalo that he had to stop - with hard point ammo from an FN - shots were over the head into the spine. Where he was, what they were doing - might have set out for poachers, but Cape Buffalo got cranky and interfered with the plan - gotta be able to deal with whatever shows up.
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I like the "Scout" concept, but not the forward mounted LE Scopes. A compact, fast handling rifle is pretty effective in many field scenarios. The way I hunt, the concept works well more often than not. I chose the original Ruger Frontier scout rifles, for my platform... currently in 7mm-08 and .358 Win... I also had the .243, but never carried it, so it got sold off. These are stainless in laminate stocks. I have shot many tons of game with these, and most often carry the .358 when guiding.
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- Location
- Western Manitoba
Ha! Great minds, and all that. If it ever shows up, I have a Ruger Compact in 243 Win that I ordered last fall - blackish laminate stock, but the matte Hawkeye version. It will likely get a smaller 4x32 or 2-7x32 or something like that; maybe a 6x36 - small, short - an "old guys" rifle...
I think I like the idea of that feature more than I actually like or want it. I have close to 50 rifles that use detachable magazines and have never once thought about how a magazine cut off would be a real improvement.
The Steyr features that I like the most are the buttstock mag storage and the built in bipod. To me, those are innovative and very useful, whereas the 2 position mag latch seems like an unnecessary complication but sounds cool.
I think I like the idea of that feature more than I actually like or want it. I have close to 50 rifles that use detachable magazines and have never once thought about how a magazine cut off would be a real improvement.
The Steyr features that I like the most are the buttstock mag storage and the built in bipod. To me, those are innovative and very useful, whereas the 2 position mag latch seems like an unnecessary complication but sounds cool.
Well Steyr Scout is all about cool features. Barrel shroud, that receiver assembly, 3 point sling attachment and all that ) When I think about it, you are right, I would probably drop 2 position mag latch, just to avoid potential of not loading when I didn't pay attention.
Maybe I would make stock under the bipod a bit more handy to hold if you have it open or removed.
Yup, all about the cool features.
But when I look at my Ruger Scout I don't feel like I am missing out. Yes, the buttstock ammo storage is great but I can put an extra mag in my pocket or a pouch. They figured out lots of ways to carry magazines a long time ago. The Mcmillan stock has recessed QD attachment points and I use a Magpul sling that you can sling up to shoot.
So that leaves the bipod. I don't sit and look at my Ruger and wish it had a bipod but there is no doubt it is a great idea and probably comes in really handy in the field.
I tried out a scout scope enough to decide it wasn't the best choice for me. As you pointed out earlier, a modern LPVO is a better choice. On 1x I have a red dot with zero magnification for close work and if i want to crank it up to 6x to shoot longer that's an option too. The speed of a red dot with long range capabilities is a great combination.
The Steyr is a great rifle and I almost bought one several times. When the Ruger came out I went that way as I prefer CRF hunting rifles and I knew I could adapt it to suit my personal desires more than the Steyr. But if Mcmillan had offered an integral bipod stock I would have got that.
The look on this Ruger is beyond awesome. Although I have to say great camera work brings it up a notch to another level.
Yet, on the Ruger scout specifically (just for the sake of discussion) I feel that it is significantly hurt by budget target it was built to.
Stock is very basic, both in material - that gray laminate (too heavy and too slick), but most importantly design. The mag is way too bulky for the overall lines of the stock and there is no flush magizine option. It is only carriable on a sling if it is flat on the right side to your body, yet default sling swivels are at the bottom. No flash cups. No cheek adjustment, the comb drop is for the irons, but most people want glass. Default rail is for scout long relive scope only. Hard to carry it in hand. Mag is in a way, front of the mag is too thiсk due to the pic rail so you can't grab it around. Compared to level actions it is not that handy. And well overall, it is not that smooth gun out of the box honestly.
Yet, on the Ruger scout specifically (just for the sake of discussion) I feel that it is significantly hurt by budget target it was built to.
Stock is very basic, both in material - that gray laminate (too heavy and too slick), but most importantly design. The mag is way too bulky for the overall lines of the stock and there is no flush magizine option. It is only carriable on a sling if it is flat on the right side to your body, yet default sling swivels are at the bottom. No flash cups. No cheek adjustment, the comb drop is for the irons, but most people want glass. Default rail is for scout long relive scope only. Hard to carry it in hand. Mag is in a way, front of the mag is too thiсk due to the pic rail so you can't grab it around. Compared to level actions it is not that handy. And well overall, it is not that smooth gun out of the box honestly.
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I cannot disagree with your comment about the Ruger laminate stock and laminates on hunting rifles in general. I can't find anything about plywood stocks in general to like, actually. The Ruger also comes with a lightweight tupperware stock that is much more appropriate for a compact rifle like the Scout, but it's still tupperware. Going with a Mcmillan and an XS rail sorts out most of the other shortcomings, while adding considerable cost. But a Steyr was twice the price of a Ruger out of the box and since I've used the Steyr on a few different occasions I know my Ruger is more to my preference.
They make a 3 round flush magazine for the Ruger but I find the best option for magazines is the polymer 5 or 6 round ones like I have in my picture. The magazine makes for an exceptionally comfortable place to put your hand to carry it. I enjoy carrying it just as much if not more than any hinged floorplate rifle.
PS Camera is just an Itelephone 7
If you can find an already sportered 1916 Spanish Mauser in 308 Winchester you'd be half way there.
Cooper recommended the 308 Winchester but here in Canada you could consider the 303 Brit as almost as good a choice. 303 Brit is about as common as 308 Winchester in just about every gun store and corner store in Canada. That could make your No 5 rifle a serious contender if you can find a scope mounting option that's worth a damn, and a few magazines that work well in your rifle.
Lee Enfield mags aren't terribly good when used as detachable box mags, but if you can find a few with good feed lips and good springs then they can be used for quick reloads if you're careful with them.
Cooper recommended the 308 Winchester but here in Canada you could consider the 303 Brit as almost as good a choice. 303 Brit is about as common as 308 Winchester in just about every gun store and corner store in Canada. That could make your No 5 rifle a serious contender if you can find a scope mounting option that's worth a damn, and a few magazines that work well in your rifle.
Lee Enfield mags aren't terribly good when used as detachable box mags, but if you can find a few with good feed lips and good springs then they can be used for quick reloads if you're careful with them.
it is really depending how your biotop and of course who are dealing with. Don dealt mostly with a fn fal in 308 when dealing with poachers ... 9.3x62 was for bigger animals. i do know that the fn in fmj is working on buffalo as well. but not everybody was don for sure. we had a few lovely discussions at night in place that some kept calling salisbury ...
DT741
Scout is a doctrine, and it’s up to any of us to make it our own design. No need to please anyone on the internet
Also, my thoughts exactly!
The factory Ruger Scout has always hit everything right with me, although I'm growing partial to blind mags.
I built my own version of a scout years ago, Mauser 98 action with xs-scout mount, xs -sights, .270 Win (Southern Ontario thing), blind mag.
I wish I still had that rifle, hmmmmmmm.
I have a few actions laying around and a .270 threaded barrel, time for a rebuild project.
Personally I prefer laminate stocks to plastics or fiberglass... and on a working rifle, I prefer it to walnut also... the asthetics don't enter the equation.... it is the feel, heft and balance that make them nice, and the epoxy impregnated ply, holds up pretty well to inclement weather, although I do some additional weather proofing in the barrel channel and action inletting. For field use, other than extreme mountain hunts, I would choose laminate over hollow, flexy plastic any day... or for that matter, over the thousand dollar McMillan stocks, in any of the "man-bun," "World of Warcraft" paint jobs.
The color, material or texture can be real attractive, the real test is being at unison with the stock and how fluid is your shooting swing with that particuliar stock.
On the Steyr Scout the stock just become the extention of my arms.
When you find this in a rifle, you dont really worry for the rest, your are cover for the most important. JP.
On the Steyr Scout the stock just become the extention of my arms.
When you find this in a rifle, you dont really worry for the rest, your are cover for the most important. JP.
ah ah im like you Greg for laminated but anyway mcmillan do not inlet anymore for the rugers ...
Here's another Scout version, put together on a Ruger American rifle, meant to meet a budget. The iron sight solution is somewhat interesting, sort of makes me wonder if a rail system with built in flip up irons like a Tavor would be a popular aftermarket addition on some rifles. Apparently they will be making a similar rail system for Tikka rifles in the future.
This one won't load with stripper clips either.
https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/review-ruger-american-robar-scout-rifle/359761
This one won't load with stripper clips either.
https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/review-ruger-american-robar-scout-rifle/359761
Solid point of view here. Hoyt also nailed it with his contribution. Getting something cool is certainly not a bad idea, but meeting needs very well isn’t necessarily the same thing.
