Pierre Poilievre... Wood Grows on Trees but Money Doesn't

bigplinker said:
'My stereotypes'? I posted a definition from Wikipedia (with the caveat it's close enough, which is to say it's not ideal), and referenced personal experiences working in the oil field, talking with people who literally have no idea how economy and politics work, cohesively or not.
You care to argue with it, you can literally go in and edit it yourself. Just be prepared to back up your assertions. They're kind of important when you're writing the definition of something.

And can people PLEASE stop referencing totalitarian regimes as being an example of any spectrum of the political sphere. And lumping Nazism and Fascism in with Socialism? Anthony Nardelli, you're crazy, (which hey, is fine, we're called gun nutz for a reason), but more importantly, you think everyone else is an idiot, which is more than just insulting.
If you're going to educate yourself, maybe you should include the really important part of any education, which is getting graded on your understanding of the knowledge you pertain to understand. The so called Peer Review part of legitimate academics. I'm thinking you left that part out.
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I'm not trying to upset anyone but was merely setting the facts straight from a historical context. If you feel that I'm off base on the subject, that is fine as I can accept constructive criticism. However, calling me crazy is not appropriate discussion tone. In addition, you definitely do not know what I think and to suggest I consider everyone to be idiots is an unwarranted inference on your part. Furthermore, I did 'educate' myself on the matter, which is why I ventured my comment. My political science professor, Douglas Verney (PhD), didn't seem to take issue with my analysis.
 
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bogusiii said:
Yes, surely you can see that. Post #65 is classic.

You can see it....right??
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You point out any yellow vest/wexit people that aren't racist bigots, I'll eat my words. But I've worked with a lot of them, and any I've met have been exactly that, whatever the reasoning or experiences behind such beliefs. It's not an over simplification. It's an accurate description of the inherent driving force that brings these people to these factions WITHIN right wing politics in this country. And there's no point bringing up left wing extremists in this country, which we all know exist, although definitely have different understandings of what defines them. We're talking about the CPC here; the left wing nuts deserve their own conversation.

And if you're going to reference a Pol Sci professor with a PhD (again, this isn't the first time you've referenced said academic in backing your crazy logic) (and I say crazy because the historical record of facts says different, and here you are rambling it off anyway) I'm pretty sure he's, literally, supposed to speak up for you, not you speak through his name. Where's a link to your thesis, so that we can see he's willing to 'not take issue' with your analysis?

Yelling people that Nazism, Fascism, and Communism all stem from the left/socialist end of the political spectrum is a complete lie. Fabrication.
And you spouting it off as facts is nothing other than a propagation of evil (fun fact: every single member of the yellow vest and wexit groups I have encountered has spouted the same false narrative, which has me concerned about who you're all getting your info from, and how?). Fascism and Nazism came from the right wing, where the few control the economy for the good of the state, Communism came from the left wing, where the many control economy for the good of the state (these are extreme over simplifications, but they are accurate, distinct, and most importantly easy to grasp in your mind as definitions of the respective 'ends' of the political spectrums), and all 3 of them stepped off their respective political diving boards and became Totalitarian Regimes.
Which is a completely different kettle of fish. Because when you're willing to use a police force to step on the throats of the public, and ignore their human rights to push your agenda, political motivation has completely left the building.
 
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bigplinker said:
You point out any yellow vest/wexit people that aren't racist bigots, I'll eat my words. But I've worked with a lot of them, and any I've met have been exactly that, whatever the reasoning or experiences behind such beliefs. It's not an over simplification. It's an accurate description of the inherent driving force that brings these people to these factions WITHIN right wing politics in this country. And there's no point bringing up left wing extremists in this country, which we all know exist, although definitely have different understandings of what defines them. We're talking about the CPC here; the left wing nuts deserve their own conversation.

And if you're going to reference a Pol Sci professor with a PhD (again, this isn't the first time you've referenced said academic in backing your crazy logic) (and I say crazy because the historical record of facts says different, and here you are rambling it off anyway) I'm pretty sure he's, literally, supposed to speak up for you, not you speak through his name. Where's a link to your thesis, so that we can see he's willing to 'not take issue' with your analysis?

Yelling people that Nazism, Fascism, and Communism all stem from the left/socialist end of the political spectrum is a complete lie. Fabrication.
And you spouting it off as facts is nothing other than a propagation of evil (fun fact: every single member of the yellow vest and wexit groups I have encountered has spouted the same false narrative, which has me concerned about who you're all getting your info from, and how?). Fascism and Nazism came from the right wing, where the few control the economy for the good of the state, Communism came from the left wing, where the many control economy for the good of the state (these are extreme over simplifications, but they are accurate, distinct, and most importantly easy to grasp in your mind as definitions of the respective 'ends' of the political spectrums), and all 3 of them stepped off their respective political diving boards and became Totalitarian Regimes.
Which is a completely different kettle of fish. Because when you're willing to use a police force to step on the throats of the public, and ignore their human rights to push your agenda, political motivation has completely left the building.
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Yikes.....

1. You just proved my point, no you doubled down....good show!!

2. Are you even sure that rant is directed at me? I didn't once mention any of the doo you just threw.

3. Kay, y'all met one yellow vest ya met 'em all. I guess.

4. Alright, you turn things around in your last sentence or two. I 100% agree with you on those points.
 
bigplinker said:
And if you're going to reference a Pol Sci professor with a PhD (again, this isn't the first time you've referenced said academic in backing your crazy logic) (and I say crazy because the historical record of facts says different, and here you are rambling it off anyway) I'm pretty sure he's, literally, supposed to speak up for you, not you speak through his name. Where's a link to your thesis, so that we can see he's willing to 'not take issue' with your analysis?

Yelling people that Nazism, Fascism, and Communism all stem from the left/socialist end of the political spectrum is a complete lie. Fabrication.
And you spouting it off as facts is nothing other than a propagation of evil (fun fact: every single member of the yellow vest and wexit groups I have encountered has spouted the same false narrative, which has me concerned about who you're all getting your info from, and how?). Fascism and Nazism came from the right wing, where the few control the economy for the good of the state, Communism came from the left wing, where the many control economy for the good of the state (these are extreme over simplifications, but they are accurate, distinct, and most importantly easy to grasp in your mind as definitions of the respective 'ends' of the political spectrums), and all 3 of them stepped off their respective political diving boards and became Totalitarian Regimes.
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I cannot begin to address the all the nonsense in your post. To speak in such hyperbole and absolutes demonstrates your inability to tolerate a dissenting position. No one is 'yelling' except maybe you given the vehemence of your wording and aspersions. You even refute your own statements when you compare Communism and Nazism, demonstrating they are variants of socialism.
 
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Anthony Nardelli said:
I cannot begin to address the all the nonsense in your post. To speak in such hyperbole and absolutes demonstrates your inability to tolerate a dissenting position. No one is 'yelling' except maybe you given the vehemence of your wording and aspersions. You even refute your own statements when you compare Communism and Nazism, demonstrating they are variants of socialism.
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I'm absolutely willing to tolerate dissenting opinion when they're based on truth. You've offhandedly written something that is a complete lie (Nazism and Fascism being socialist), and not for the first time. That's not dissent. You're propagating lies. And reading the discourse between you and bogusiii, you're doing it in such a way as to appeal to people who think you can get an education from anything without it being graded on/tested against the truth of the 20th century, by professional educators who've learned the importance of Truth and Integrity in Education and the Education System.
'You can't begin to address' should be changed to 'you can't' refute anything I've said because you're making stuff up and incapable of providing information that is foundational knowledge in regard to the the history of the last 150 years.

Yelling was a misspell I left, telling was the original word, but yelling seemed adequate because if you're not willing to listen to the truth, and instead hold fast to the lies you propagate (that you may or may not in fact believe in; such is the bases for the propagation of evil I've mentioned), you might as well be lying.
And it's become painfully obvious your comprehensive reading skills are severely lacking if you find anything in what I've written that refutes the fact the 20th century example of Communism (not the actual definition of communism as it was written down in the 19th century) was a socialist schism, and Nazism and Fascism are capitalist schisms.
Pray tell, are you by chance Canadian yellow vest/wexit acolytes/fans? Do you think the natives were completely out of line in protesting last spring?
 
Here's a question for you fine gentlemen:

If, as you say, socialism was responsible for the birth of the 3 largest -isms of evil of the 20th century (Fascism, Nazism, and, ahem, Communism), what evil, totalitarian -ism did capitalism lead to in the last 150 years? Just curious what your thoughts are in that regard?
 
bigplinker said:
You point out any yellow vest/wexit people that aren't racist bigots, I'll eat my words. But I've worked with a lot of them, and any I've met have been exactly that, whatever the reasoning or experiences behind such beliefs. It's not an over simplification. It's an accurate description of the inherent driving force that brings these people to these factions WITHIN right wing politics in this country. And there's no point bringing up left wing extremists in this country, which we all know exist, although definitely have different understandings of what defines them. We're talking about the CPC here; the left wing nuts deserve their own conversation.

And if you're going to reference a Pol Sci professor with a PhD (again, this isn't the first time you've referenced said academic in backing your crazy logic) (and I say crazy because the historical record of facts says different, and here you are rambling it off anyway) I'm pretty sure he's, literally, supposed to speak up for you, not you speak through his name. Where's a link to your thesis, so that we can see he's willing to 'not take issue' with your analysis?

Yelling people that Nazism, Fascism, and Communism all stem from the left/socialist end of the political spectrum is a complete lie. Fabrication.
And you spouting it off as facts is nothing other than a propagation of evil (fun fact: every single member of the yellow vest and wexit groups I have encountered has spouted the same false narrative, which has me concerned about who you're all getting your info from, and how?). Fascism and Nazism came from the right wing, where the few control the economy for the good of the state, Communism came from the left wing, where the many control economy for the good of the state (these are extreme over simplifications, but they are accurate, distinct, and most importantly easy to grasp in your mind as definitions of the respective 'ends' of the political spectrums), and all 3 of them stepped off their respective political diving boards and became Totalitarian Regimes.
Which is a completely different kettle of fish. Because when you're willing to use a police force to step on the throats of the public, and ignore their human rights to push your agenda, political motivation has completely left the building.
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This is the way Commies talk.
 
bigplinker said:
Here's a question for you fine gentlemen:

If, as you say, socialism was responsible for the birth of the 3 largest -isms of evil of the 20th century (Fascism, Nazism, and, ahem, Communism), what evil, totalitarian -ism did capitalism lead to in the last 150 years? Just curious what your thoughts are in that regard?
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Milanczar said:
This is the way Commies talk.
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Indeed!
 
bigplinker said:
Here's a question for you fine gentlemen:

If, as you say, socialism was responsible for the birth of the 3 largest -isms of evil of the 20th century (Fascism, Nazism, and, ahem, Communism), what evil, totalitarian -ism did capitalism lead to in the last 150 years? Just curious what your thoughts are in that regard?
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Well, crony capitalism could be categorized as an offshoot. I'm not sure I would characterize it as totalitarian type evil but definitely corrupt. Authoritarian/state capitalism that is espoused by China currently strikes me as problematic as well.
 
Milanczar said:
This is the way Commies talk.
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My favorite part of conversations like this, with fine gentlemen such as yourself, it's that you actually believe you're capitalists. If I'm reading comments like this from you, here, you're just stooges with no idea where you stand in the order of things, and just were you and your progeny are going to end up: slaves, no matter who's in charge.

As for myself, I'm just absolutely positive that I'm going to die (which, some would say, is the ultimate freedom) before I live on my knees. The kids can make up their own minds; I'll just make sure they get a broad, and more importantly, vetted, education before I go.

Wishing you all luck in the decade to come. It's going to be a doozy.
 
Falconflyer said:
I think O'Toole is a huge dissapointment, I didn't really like the guy from the start and like him even less now.
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i have to agree. O'Toole doesnt have any good qualities, in the beginning he just struck me as uncharismatic but as of lately he has been saying some stuff from the trump playbook, just bad PR all around. Cons need a new leader.

i know this forum is (fairly) no fan of the Libs i agree, but as taking the Cons purely on their political value, i dont think they have any really... aside from being the only real opposition to the Libs.

NDP isnt perfect but the only party i can support anymore.

Libs are guns grabbers and 2-faced, cons are career con-men who get rich off of stripping public services and people to the bone.
 
essorx said:
edit: I used to have a very detailed argument proving my argument points by points, pretty much across all spectrums, however I've been blasted several time on multiple forums about it as being "ageist" (ie. the same excuse as when the lefty's logic fails and accuse you of yet-another-ism). Since then, I just restrict myself to the above summary: boomers, as a generation, are 100% responsible.

Anyway, we, mere plebe, millenials and Z'ers, are too busy trying to survive (by whatever means necessary for some) to be able to do anything, all layers of our society have been gangrened. Just like range's boards are full of old fudds. Just like gun Rights in Canada, this is a no-win scenario.

Personally, I'm just coasting under the radar before moving to the middle-of-nowhere USA and be left freaking alone. I don't care about millenials or Z'ers, I can't save them all by myself. All I worry about is my kin.
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i agree and well said.

i cant blame an entire generation but the boomers in power definitely pilfered all levels of society and left the husk for later generations. its hard enough for most to survive nevermind right all the
past wrongs of the world and the new ones that keep stacking up
 
truemask said:
i agree and well said.

i cant blame an entire generation but the boomers in power definitely pilfered all levels of society and left the husk for later generations. its hard enough for most to survive nevermind right all the
past wrongs of the world and the new ones that keep stacking up
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And boomers aren't done pilfering yet. The one (sadistic I know, but the truth is sadistic these days) positive reality that might have came out of the whole covid #### show was the fact that it seemed, almost by design, to attack the boomer generation alone. And with their deaths (don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for death. My parents are boomers; I'm terrified of the reality that someday soon they and all their knowledge will be gone; they already distributed their wealth to their 8 kids) would have come the largest possible freeing up of resources, money, and easing of strain on the economy, on the human condition, possible, without a total annihilation of human society. Which I dare say is becoming the most realistic, and terrifyingly likely solution to getting off the current wheel of borrow, borrow, borrow.

But instead we've been wrangled into giving more of our prospects away to maintain the status quo, basically knee capping the young of today into an even less hopeful scenario, more mind numbing debt, than they already had coming to them.
I'm a humanist, but the options for anyone under 40 these days, as far as career, as far as getting ahead, are evaporating. In every industry. And unless we shut down the global economy (the actual positive that could have come out of covid, shutting the borders and returning to times gone by where every product you can imagine wasn't outsourced to a country with a more pliable (read: cheaper) workforce; we're not far from being peasants in our once great land. I wish I was wrong.

Just imagine what $350 Billion could have done towards the goal of self sufficiency?
Serious question: does anyone know what a single dose of covid vaccine costs in this country? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. Which is kind of scary when you think of it.
 
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