gas checks on 303 cast Velocity?

WhelanLad

WhelanLad

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Location
Australia AU
hey got a sweet deall i rekon for 303 180gr cast, $71 for 800. 400.. i think i read right.. 400........ gas checked. (so he misquoted me x400)

question is, will be my first experience with GC, Does this mean i may be able to push them out faster in the 303? what velocity expectancy??

commercial cast, from hawksburyriverbulletco.com.au?
 
Last edited:
well a swift reply from manufactuere...... he says.

"the coating is rated to 3200fps"........................... frickennnn elllllllllllll YEAH
 
You aren't going to push anywhere near 3200fps. I use an uncoated 215grn projectile at 1800fps with good accuracy. Powder coating will get you much further than traditional lube and GC so I think useable accuracy will be your limiting factor.
 
I don't think I've ever seen (published) speeds like that even for a jacketed round in a 303. I haven't loaded anything but cast rounds in 303 in long time but when I first started I had some 125 grain jacketed pills I was pushing with 40 some odd grains of 4895 and I think it was still under 2900 FPS. I didn't crony so I can't confirm but 3,200 seems extreme for that cartridge.
 
B said:
You aren't going to push anywhere near 3200fps. I use an uncoated 215grn projectile at 1800fps with good accuracy. Powder coating will get you much further than traditional lube and GC so I think useable accuracy will be your limiting factor.
Click to expand...

ha ha nah i know it wont push that, but there is other cal bullets with the coating which its apparent rating is....

good call on the lube, so old mate is going to bake these in 3 layers to fatten them up with powder coating, he says 2 coats give 1 thou, an is going to report on 3 coatings for my ruger! cool i thought.
an false alarm on gas checks, he DID do it but doesnt now, thats my job if needed..


useable accuracy is just open sight hunting deer in reasonable dense bush an 100m with 150m it would have to be standing broadside witing for me :) and or mostly Plinking targets with a similiar velocity or same POI as hunting rounds so i dont waste them an can practise with casters
 
TargetAcquired said:
I don't think I've ever seen (published) speeds like that even for a jacketed round in a 303. I haven't loaded anything but cast rounds in 303 in long time but when I first started I had some 125 grain jacketed pills I was pushing with 40 some odd grains of 4895 and I think it was still under 2900 FPS. I didn't crony so I can't confirm but 3,200 seems extreme for that cartridge.
Click to expand...

yeah it would be extreme if used in context with the 303 specifically.... which it wasnt . but all good.


So my 170 8mm (drawn down) loads are 2500 fps ish......... an the 180 hot cores are similiar. tad slower cos same powder charge ha ha.

how close ya rekon HY TEK coating could get to that, in 3 bakes.
 
Last edited:
WhelanLad said:
ha ha nah i know it wont push that, but there is other cal bullets with the coating which its apparent rating is....

good call on the lube, so old mate is going to bake these in 3 layers to fatten them up with powder coating, he says 2 coats give 1 thou, an is going to report on 3 coatings for my ruger! cool i thought.
an false alarm on gas checks, he DID do it but doesnt now, thats my job if needed..


useable accuracy is just open sight hunting deer in reasonable dense bush an 100m with 150m it would have to be standing broadside witing for me :) and or mostly Plinking targets with a similiar velocity or same POI as hunting rounds so i dont waste them an can practise with casters
Click to expand...

A couple things came up when i read your description of the "old mate" and his Powder coating. I am very interested in how he Pc's to a thickness of .0005....My experience with PC is that the absolute minimum i can achieve is .0015 per cook on the first cook and up to .003 on the subsequent coatings. I have found that EW gun coating will give the most consistent thickness at .0015 and the old tried and true "shake& bake" minimum is around a full.002. I have considerable experience with multiple cooks to increase OD of slugs. I easily take .452 hand gun slugs and coat up to .460 and then size down to .459 and use in a bunch of 45-70's & 45-90's I just completed a 400 round batch last saturday). Some of these get over .460 and are a very tight push to size back to .459.

The only logical explanation I can see is your guy is casting .308 dia. slugs and PCing up to .313 or so, so they are a tight fit in your .311 bore....this will work I'm betting, but if he is casting .311 and cooking 3 times those slugs are probably finished at closer to .320 and unless you have a very generous chamber cut at the case neck very doubtful you will even be able to chamber them.
 
Cast bullets are one of those zen like objects. Luck plays a large part, size matters, and you need to have realistic expectations.

A plain cast bullet, all things being in the zone, have a realistic limit of around 800 to 900 fps in a handgun.

If you Hi-Tek coat that same bullet, the velocity limit may increase somewhat, but what you gain is that if the bullet you were using had issues with leading due to size or alloy or ???? it will in all likelihood work OK coated at up to 1000 fps.

A gas checked bullet can be driven up to 1200 fps in a handgun. Gas checks are a way of hitting the easy button for cast bullet performance. IOW, the alloy can be a bit softer than optimum, the size isn't as critical, and leading is reduced in most cases. In my limited experience, a coated bullet lands between the performance of a plain cast and a gas checked cast bullet. This is in reality pretty good as a coated bullet is easier and cheaper to produce.

Rifles have a longer barrel, and no cylinder gap. Velocities are higher, and as a rule velocities can be increased considerably before leading occurs.

Shooting cast, as I've already stated, relies heavily on luck if your pay grade is not that high. In a 303 Br velocities approaching 2200 fps are possible with a gas checked bullet. Possible but for the beginner or mildly experienced cast bullet shooter, 1600 fps is a realistic goal. At 1600 fps powder selection is less critical to acceptable performance, bore size and condition are a bit less critical to acceptable performance and even a less than perfectly cast bullet will be decently accurate, IMHO.

Now, specifically to your 180 gr GC (Gas Checked) bullets, without knowing the sized to diameter of the bullet or the groove size in your rifle, I think that 1600 fps would be goal to start with.

No experience here but I've read that the Ruger #1 in 303 Br were a bit on the large size for groove diameter. The SAAMI spec for the groove diameter for a 303 Br is from 0.314" to 0.316" and I'm guessing that your bullets are sized 0.312".

In your favor is that most commercial cast bullets are cast from hard alloy, and the lube is pretty hard as well. Both of those factors are conducive to decent performance at high velocity. I'd suggest weighting each bullet and culling the light ones.

Shooting cast in a 303 Br is a fairly common and popular hobby for lots of shooters, I'd suggest that you search the milsurp and similar sites. But bare in mind, the shooters that really know their onions tend to be a the quiet and reclusive type, they are on a whole different level, and for the most part are into their hobby. And yes, because I answered your post, you would be correct in assuming that I am a dabbler, and rank amateur when it comes to casting and shooting cast. I work at getting better, but if luck is not your friend, rewards are few and far between. I probably own 30 molds, and of those I've been able to get decent results from perhaps 1/3 of those.

I've had decent results with SR4759 powder, and H4198, IMR4227, and 5744 as well.

Welcome to the world of shooting cast.
 
fingers284 said:
A couple things came up when i read your description of the "old mate" and his Powder coating. I am very interested in how he Pc's to a thickness of .0005....My experience with PC is that the absolute minimum i can achieve is .0015 per cook on the first cook and up to .003 on the subsequent coatings. I have found that EW gun coating will give the most consistent thickness at .0015 and the old tried and true "shake& bake" minimum is around a full.002. I have considerable experience with multiple cooks to increase OD of slugs. I easily take .452 hand gun slugs and coat up to .460 and then size down to .459 and use in a bunch of 45-70's & 45-90's I just completed a 400 round batch last saturday). Some of these get over .460 and are a very tight push to size back to .459.

The only logical explanation I can see is your guy is casting .308 dia. slugs and PCing up to .313 or so, so they are a tight fit in your .311 bore....this will work I'm betting, but if he is casting .311 and cooking 3 times those slugs are probably finished at closer to .320 and unless you have a very generous chamber cut at the case neck very doubtful you will even be able to chamber them.
Click to expand...

hi mate id say the coating Hytek is alot thinner than the average powder coating you mention . hytek is alot thinner of a stuff, an id say he used the term powder coating in regard to their hytek coating, an ive relayed it here.

old mate did say he had been quoting all morning an hence why my quote was.... wrong LOL...
 
nitro-express said:
Welcome to the world of shooting cast.
Click to expand...

hey mate cheers ill digest your post later on.

in the 375win the hytek coating has been no trouble at 1800 fps , .375 245gr FN. nothing else apart from the hytek......

not used inthe 303 before an im wanting alot more than 1600fps in the 303, His bullets initially are .3125 before sizing to 312..... im hopefully goin to end up with atleast a 3135 or 314 projectile with the multiple coats of HYteck coating (not powder coat as you guys know)


in the 375 Win i use the same load as for jacketed, with AR2207 but ive never loaded it above 2000fps even with jackets. settled on 1800-1700 and more recently lowered it to 1600 or so..... it does it job.

The 303 i will be using Varget, light loads an working up to hopefully 2200 or better initially, an then workin around making that higher if unable to initially.

i'll touch base on here when i know what size me 303 projectiles have arrived at...... an we'll go from there!

these are "hard cast" too BTW - ive put them ahole to muzzle thru elk sized deer before :)
 
Consider heat treating your bullets after you have done your hi tek coating. I do 455 degrees for an hour then dump in ice water to get the projectiles hard as possible. I cast for my 223 and get about 2300 with my 70 grain powder coated heat treated bullets. Treated this way you could likely be able to use jacketed loading information. Start at the starting load and work up. Groups will shrink until your pressure matches the strength of the bullet then it will get bigger once you have exceeded it. The coating should protect from leading.
 
WhelanLad said:
hi mate id say the coating Hytek is alot thinner than the average powder coating you mention . hytek is alot thinner of a stuff, an id say he used the term powder coating in regard to their hytek coating, an ive relayed it here.

old mate did say he had been quoting all morning an hence why my quote was.... wrong LOL...
Click to expand...

AHH. now I see says the blind man. I have never delved into the HY-tek stuff other than reading it is a bit more involved than powder coat to apply.

As Nitro expressed....measurements are critical to coated slug shooting and I soon realized when I started that my calipers would become a very much used tool long before any shooting took place.
 
JBD said:
Consider heat treating your bullets after you have done your hi tek coating. I do 455 degrees for an hour then dump in ice water to get the projectiles hard as possible. I cast for my 223 and get about 2300 with my 70 grain powder coated heat treated bullets. Treated this way you could likely be able to use jacketed loading information. Start at the starting load and work up. Groups will shrink until your pressure matches the strength of the bullet then it will get bigger once you have exceeded it. The coating should protect from leading.
Click to expand...

interesting!
 
I have read some good tests about heat treating post PC. Seems like just water quenching them when taking them out gets them to 20-22bhn just fine. Anything past 20 isn't of much benefit and can lead to shattering and such.
 
B said:
I have read some good tests about heat treating post PC. Seems like just water quenching them when taking them out gets them to 20-22bhn just fine. Anything past 20 isn't of much benefit and can lead to shattering and such.
Click to expand...

how does the PC not melt off??
what would i need to bake them liek that, me old oven wont do it ay?
 
WhelanLad said:
how does the PC not melt off??
what would i need to bake them liek that, me old oven wont do it ay?
Click to expand...


no the powder coat does not melt. I am using my regular oven but I am also using tool blue which is supposed to be non toxic. I am getting 2 inch 10 shot groups out of my wc mcr 223 shooting 70 grain cast. Probably around 2300 fps it using a load right in the middle for jacketed bullets. It is more accurate than campro 223 bullets.
























i
 
I've cast 185gr Round nose .312 bullets for my .303 and am still experimenting on a good load. Now I've been casting 170gr FP .309 for my Win .30-30 and use the same load data as per a jacketed bullet. Recoil is a bit sharper, no leading, no excessive pressure signs & group under 2in at 100yds with a Williams peep site on the receiver.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom