180 Variants
- Thread starter gvanzeggelaar
- Start date
The WS-MCR in my opinion is the better of the two rifles. Both will shoot equally well, however the WS-MCR has some extra nice aspects that I appreciate.
That being said you won't go wrong with a WK-180C either.
Both rifles had less than ideal starts, including 3D-printed parts, very sharp machining edges, ultra-cheap cam pins, snapping pistons/cocking handles and castle nuts that hadn't been staked well (I've listed all the issues I recall, I am not saying both rifles had all of them it's a joint list)
This was in part caused by initially a very low price point ($1000 for the original WK180C), and later by both price pressure and a very significant pressure to manufacture as many as possible as the political climate was (and remains) high risk to semi-auto firearms manufacturers.
The teething issues caused by these factors have largely been overcome. Prices have risen to the point where higher quality materials are likely in use, enough time has passed for circa 19,000 rifles (combined WK180C + WS-MCR) to be made and competition in the form of new receivers, after market spare parts and comparable rifles such as the J180 and the NDS 18SC has put the pressure on to make things better. In addition thousands of Type 97s, Type 81s, IWI X95s, Kel-Tecs and far more have been imported. The WK180C and WS-MCR now have a much more limited window of time in which they are the sole Canadian producers of modern sporting rifles.
Kodiak the manufacturer of the WK180C offers excellent customer service. I can't comment on Wolverine's customer service for the WS-MCR as I don't own one, however my warranty claim with them is now running on 1 year with no end in sight and emails no longer being responded to. I can't comment as to whether that is representative of Wolverine and I think others should chime in with their experiences to give a more balanced view.
That being said you won't go wrong with a WK-180C either.
Both rifles had less than ideal starts, including 3D-printed parts, very sharp machining edges, ultra-cheap cam pins, snapping pistons/cocking handles and castle nuts that hadn't been staked well (I've listed all the issues I recall, I am not saying both rifles had all of them it's a joint list)
This was in part caused by initially a very low price point ($1000 for the original WK180C), and later by both price pressure and a very significant pressure to manufacture as many as possible as the political climate was (and remains) high risk to semi-auto firearms manufacturers.
The teething issues caused by these factors have largely been overcome. Prices have risen to the point where higher quality materials are likely in use, enough time has passed for circa 19,000 rifles (combined WK180C + WS-MCR) to be made and competition in the form of new receivers, after market spare parts and comparable rifles such as the J180 and the NDS 18SC has put the pressure on to make things better. In addition thousands of Type 97s, Type 81s, IWI X95s, Kel-Tecs and far more have been imported. The WK180C and WS-MCR now have a much more limited window of time in which they are the sole Canadian producers of modern sporting rifles.
Kodiak the manufacturer of the WK180C offers excellent customer service. I can't comment on Wolverine's customer service for the WS-MCR as I don't own one, however my warranty claim with them is now running on 1 year with no end in sight and emails no longer being responded to. I can't comment as to whether that is representative of Wolverine and I think others should chime in with their experiences to give a more balanced view.
BattleRife
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- of No Fixed Address
A lot of the preference for the MCR over the WK-180C comes from a preference to support Wolverine Supplies and John Hipwell over Kodiak Machine. If mechanical differences are your only criteria the advantage shrinks, at least somewhat.
Well, I have a WK and haven't had a problem with it yet. I just found out this week from another CGNer that Kodiak has recently released a new and improved charging handle.
Also I think the overwhelming consensus is that the Kodiak customer service is very good and very responsive.
I don't have an MCR (yet) so I can't comment on actual experience.
I will say in a recent trip out to one of the gun shops outside my region (and they are a sponsor here), the guy behind the counter told me while they go through a lot of sales (it's a decent sized store and always busy), the most frequent seller for them is the WK right now (this was as of 2.5 weeks ago). Of like everything they sell (rifles/shotguns/handguns), the WK sells the most. This is the normal guy I deal with there, and he knows his firearms and was in the military. I was surprised to hear about the popularity of the WK, this since in most other gun shops I always seem to see WKs in stock (maybe they are replenished fast). There is a slightly negative opinion on the WK (at least initially) but we don't know on CGN how many total WK owners there are out there. If you don't have a problem with yours, you're not going to post about it. So the impressions may be a bit skewed.
Where did you see the 19,000 sales figure? I've been curious how many WK's, WS-MCR's and WX-MCR's have been sold to date.
Your two claims contradict eachother. If a rifle is well made, availability of "spare parts" is not as relevant. The fact that a lot of spare parts are available suggests there is a significant need for them, which implies poor quality.
Also, what are you basing your claim that the WK is better made on?
Serial numbers shown in pictures, and talking to both companies.
DaveMachine
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- That one place with a cowboy complex
I like the inclusion of a steel 'trunnion' on the MCR rather than a brass bushing on the WK. That said, I think both have reliability/design/manufacturing issues that need to be overcome. Right now, it seems that snapped pistons are a big issue on both platforms. Not extracting steel case ammo is another red flag IMO
Right now, if I had to pick one, I'd go with the MCR.
Right now, if I had to pick one, I'd go with the MCR.
PinaKaleada
CGN Regular
- Location
- South of most
Actually the AR15 has lots of spare parts available. I don't think of it as a poor gun though, same with AKs. Oh and 10/22, Glocks and 870s.
The Ar15 had a lot of spare parts for customization, not because they are unreliable or break parts, can’t compare the two at all.Same with 10/22; Glocks and 870’s
You just named the most prolific examples of the most popular firearm styles in the world. Parts exist because there's literally tens of millions of each of those guns. I don't think the Kodiak WK-180C is in the same league.
I’d lean towards Wk-180. Wolverine won’t get one dollar from me based on their customer service alone. Customer service has to carry value if all else is essentially equal. Kodiak is a Canadian manufacturer. Without them the 180 platform would not be what it is today.
redbirddog
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Maple Syrup land Ontario
I can get sub MOA with match ammo in my Kodiak. I got mine used, had no issues with it. I did call tech support to ask some questions, they were awesome and smart. I would recommend.
I see this platform as a Sub $1000 rifle period. Anything over that is because of fan boy add ons in my opinion. With a low power scope( 4x ) and good ammo its a 300 yard coyote machine.
I did machine and make my own charging handle. All the ones out there were lack luster and I did have mine walk out once. I would really like to see a fold out like in the FAL... Im still working on it. Get out there and get one it worth it.
I see this platform as a Sub $1000 rifle period. Anything over that is because of fan boy add ons in my opinion. With a low power scope( 4x ) and good ammo its a 300 yard coyote machine.
I did machine and make my own charging handle. All the ones out there were lack luster and I did have mine walk out once. I would really like to see a fold out like in the FAL... Im still working on it. Get out there and get one it worth it.
WS-MCR - 3k
WX-MCR - ?
Spectre Ballistics Lynx 180B - ?
Spectre Ltd Spec 180 - ?
NoDakSpud 180 - arriving soon
Jard J180 - Arriving this month
I'm assuming the Spectre ballistics, Spectre Ltd have made a few hundred lowers and likewise with the WX-MCR.
Of course it's entirely possible that circa 1000 WX-MCRs have been sold and that both Spectre's have made 500 each. Short of seeing serial numbers and gaining confirmation that they correspond to production numbers it's hard to be super clear on it.
What we can be sure of is that with 5 lowers in the game, the Jard 180 and the NoDakSpud entering the game we are looking at well over 1000 new Black NR rifles entering the market on a monthly basis, potentially even 2000 or more.
Many shops have WK180Cs in stock now, likewise to a lesser degree WS-MCRs. My 3 local gun shops all buy WK180Cs and have a high turnover of stock. This to me along with the rate which WK180C serial numbers have increased suggests that their production capacity is pretty high now and growing.
Give over 80,000 AR15s got banned and god knows how much of other rifles it only makes sense that the numbers of 180 variants in circulation explode especially at a price point of $1250 - $1500 with significant competition to improve quality and drive down prices.
I also anticipate that other guns like the Type 97 that magically jumped from being a $1100 to a $1450 rifle after the ban will come down in price a degree.
My experience dealing with Kodiak for non warranty parts was excellent. Pricing was good, and shipping was fast and relatively cheap.
IMO the MCR is the better rifle - solely due to the steel rails for the cam pin, and the shell deflector. Neither of which are an issue for me, but the lack of them highlights the original Wolverine/Kodiak spec: as cheap as possible, as many as possible. The inclusion of those items alone show that the designers were ready to move beyond the cheap like borscht attitude. I'm stoked to see how this platform matures over the next couple of years.
Dexter Morgan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
What an absurd thing to say.
Availability of spare parts is essential to any good product. (Glock-17 or a Honda Civic for example)
Looking at the two side by side at the range a few days ago.
The WS-MSR looks like the aliexpress version of a WK-180.
