SxS: Do you walk with it open?
- Thread starter huntingfish
- Start date
I fully agree with Longwalker up to but excluding his last two sentences. I disagree completely with those, because you're correct in saying trips or slips are scary things. Reliance on a device (even one called a "safety"), is foolish. Devices fail. I have seen and personally experienced safeties that failed. Should a safety fail when it was being trusted over muzzle awareness, someone could get hurt or die. When muzzle awareness is the rule, nobody gets hurt, accidental discharge or otherwise.
In 50 years of hunting with guns loaded, trigger finger outside the guard and safeties off, both my partner and I have never experienced an accidental discharge. We've tripped, fell, stepped into yote dens, and all manner of obstacles.
When we occasion to hunt with a new partner, we observe their muzzle awareness. If they "sweep" one or more of us with their barrels, we take extra precautions around them for the rest of the hunt. And, we don't hunt with them again. You see, you can walk around in the bush with the shells in your pocket, the action open, and the safety on and it won't make you any safer than someone with proper muzzle awareness.
Ironic that we both avoid unsafe hunters for the opposite reasons.
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I don't think carrying a loaded gun with the safety off is a good idea even with diligent muzzle awareness and the trigger finger outside of the guard. Sure safeties can and do fail but the vast majority of the time they do work as advertised and I've yet to see a shotgun where I can't get the safety off real quick when a bird flushes.
The main reason is because I've learned with experience that it's the safest method. More people get shot accidentally with "unloaded" firearms than any other kind. I know of 2 instances where veteran LEOs accidentally killed other cops in training. The list of hunters shot by others in their party is endless. The ONLY foolproof way to eliminate accidental injury and death is by treating all firearms as if they are loaded and cocked at all times. If you are handling a loaded and cocked firearm, I would hope you would practice safe muzzle awareness at the same time.
Some would suggest that you can be safe and aware with your muzzle(s) with the safety on. This is absolutely true. However, when you believe you have redundancies, your emphasis on all of them is individually reduced. Once in a while you catch yourself forgetting the safety (or you switched it off during a flush and forgot to switch it back). Another time, you sweep a fellow hunter with your barrels, but nothing learned because you excuse yourself, thinking 'no harm done, the safety was on'.
I repair broken guns. I know why they fail. Most often it's due to wear. When parts wear, they work fine to a point, then suddenly fail. Most often, the user gets no warning that the part is about to fail. How often do you test your safety? Muzzle awareness is tested every time you move. And, you can observe other hunters' status. Do you know when your partner's gun is on safety?
I hunt with a wide variety of shotguns. Some have no safety. Some are on safety when the hammer is at half-####. Some have manual safeties. And, some have auto-safeties. Some actions are pumps, some are break actions. There are single barrels and there are double barrels. Developing and maintaining safe operational habits for such a wide variety of options is problematic. I do very well, indeed, considering all the variations, but muzzle awareness is my ace in the hole. Relying on muzzle awareness is a constant fail-safe and doesn't matter the config or status of the gun.
Keep in mind, I said from the beginning that I hunt with the gun cocked and the safety off. I hunt only in the uplands over a Brittany. My hunting partners all observe the same practices. In all other situations, actions are open, shells out of the gun, and muzzle awareness rule in full force.
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I fall into this catagory but I don't rely on the mechanical safety to be safe in the same way that MK2750 doesn't rely on his seat belt to keep him safe in a vehicle. Ultimately the best safety is between your ears but in the even of a trip or fall there's a really good chance that the safety will keep the gun from discharging acidently and that's a good enough reason for me to have it on.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Straightshooter, we can agree that not relying on a mechanical safety is sensible. Muzzle control, trigger control and awareness of surroundings is most important. All guns should be treated as if they are ready to fire. Good for you that you've never had an accidental discharge. Yet. But to refuse to use a safety because it is somehow "more safe" without using it is circular logic that is completely bass ackwards.
You mean like letting law abiding citizens possess firearms is bass ackwards? With all due respect, it only seems backwards until you open your mind to the possibilities. Using the seat belt example, I only wear a seat belt because it's the law. Until the law came into effect, I never wore seat belts. When I drive, as when I hunt, I have my "spidey senses" fully engaged. I love driving almost as much as I love hunting. I remain aware of all the vehicles in my vicinity, their relative speeds, direction, side streets, traffic signals, etc, etc. Driving and hunting are both all-in activities for me. I don't need or want driver-assist technology, and I don't need or use safeties (except to disable or turn off auto-safeties). I will never buy or ride in a self-driving car.
My emphasis on self reliance evolved over a lifetime of active pursuits. In addition to hunting and driving, my hobbies include riding motorcycles and scuba diving. Started riding bikes at the age of 14 - have ridden from Vancouver Island to Cape Breton Island in Canada, and many more miles beyond. Dives include winter dives, night dives in the open ocean, wreck dives, salvage dives, and all manner of nature dives.
I provide this perspective because riding and diving, like hunting, require knowledge and focus. Day dreaming is not beneficial to positive outcomes with any of them. Having not had any motorcycle accidents, scuba diving accidents, or hunting accidents, I have all the proof that I need that thorough knowledge of my equipment, combined with meticulous maintenance, and impeccable habits will keep me safe.
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I understand what your saying and for the most part I agree. I ride motorbikes, fly airplanes, ride horses, hunt, fish, like volatile women and live in a town that likes to flood, I take more risk getting out of bed in the morning than a lot of people take in they're entire lives! Having said that, I wear a seat belt in my pickup, not becuase it's the law but because even though I drive defensively I realize that one day that seat belt might save me from the unexpected.
Good to hear. Contrary to the impression this thread probably leaves, I certainly have no problem with people using their safeties (or seat belts). I merely answered the OP's question honestly, and those that came afterward.
I use a safety but rely on muzzle control. As I've told many students in Hunter Education courses- You can be walking around with a round in the chamber, safety off, finger on the trigger and drunk but if the muzzle is pointed safely nobody is going to get hurt. (I also mention I do not advise these things to everyone, just that muzzle control is really the most important thing)
Safeties can fail, it's true. But most of them do not. Muzzle control is the most important but I feel that a safety is good insurance for when things get out of hand unexpectedly in rough terrain. Everyone has their own way. Probably the biggest issue is many hunters don't handle firearms for most of the year so safety procedures can get rusty. Familiarity with firearms is important in my opinion. Then again, most people drive every day and there are some horrible drivers out there
But driving or even riding a bicycle is more complex than firearm safety.
Safeties can fail, it's true. But most of them do not. Muzzle control is the most important but I feel that a safety is good insurance for when things get out of hand unexpectedly in rough terrain. Everyone has their own way. Probably the biggest issue is many hunters don't handle firearms for most of the year so safety procedures can get rusty. Familiarity with firearms is important in my opinion. Then again, most people drive every day and there are some horrible drivers out there
But driving or even riding a bicycle is more complex than firearm safety.
It really depends on what you are hunting and where. I can see an open carry out west while hunting pheasant over dogs, but here while hunting grouse and woodcock in very close quarters you need to be ready to go faster than that. I hunt with my SxS loaded, closed , with safety on, usually by myself with the dog.
