Smokeless in modern muzeloaders

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Bigbore 35

Bigbore 35

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I see there is a sticky on smokeless powders in antique bp hand guns and rifles but not much mention about in-line modern muzeloaders? If there is, can anyone direct me to the article please, thank you.
 
About all you need to know, is if the manufacturer does not say it's all good, its not all good.

Even a fair few of the ones that 'were' supposed to be good, have been blown up, likely by guys thinking they could get sloppy with the amount of powder, or otherwise making changes from what the design required.

Unless the Muzzle loader was expressly designed to use Smokeless powders, don't. Full stop. There ARE some BP substitutes which are designed to be safe at BP pressures, stuff like Triple 7, and so on. They are not smokeless powders.

The handguns (and some rifles) thing comes about, because they are cartridge firearms and several of the calibers span over the era between BP and smokeless powders, and they were loaded with both from the factory over the years. A fair few old and in disreputable condition firearms have been blown up by factory loads too. The simple version, is that the metallurgy of the BP era was not nearly as advanced as it became once smokeless powder hit the scene. Some of the designs were capable of transitioning well, others, were pretty much already about at the bleeding edge of what they could withstand, before smokeless came along.
 
trevj said:
About all you need to know, is if the manufacturer does not say it's all good, its not all good.

Even a fair few of the ones that 'were' supposed to be good, have been blown up, likely by guys thinking they could get sloppy with the amount of powder, or otherwise making changes from what the design required.

Unless the Muzzle loader was expressly designed to use Smokeless powders, don't. Full stop. There ARE some BP substitutes which are designed to be safe at BP pressures, stuff like Triple 7, and so on. They are not smokeless powders.

The handguns (and some rifles) thing comes about, because they are cartridge firearms and several of the calibers span over the era between BP and smokeless powders, and they were loaded with both from the factory over the years. A fair few old and in disreputable condition firearms have been blown up by factory loads too. The simple version, is that the metallurgy of the BP era was not nearly as advanced as it became once smokeless powder hit the scene. Some of the designs were capable of transitioning well, others, were pretty much already about at the bleeding edge of what they could withstand, before smokeless came along.
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You know I don't get this BS. People saying stuff about metallurgy and weak barrels but I don't agree with you. I have talked to other people recently that have had enough of this fear mongering BS that you are spewing as well. Using common sense, smokeless is safer to use than black powder. I want to here from people who have worked up safe loads in their ml, not this stuff. I believe that it is only a marketing scheme to keep black powder on the shelves and not a safety issue. Use common sense, SMOKELESS BY WEIGHT, NOT BY VOLUME. We are also not talking about black powder era ml but moder ml like my Remington 700, not uml. I use a charge of 150 grains (shockey sticks x 3 ) with a bullet to bore hand cast and coated 250 bullet with or without base wad and at 2, 000fps with no issues at all. There must be someone here that is not afraid of free speech?
 
FOLLOW MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS, nothing else... If you do not want to then do it on your own accord. It appears that you don't want to listen to safety. Call up the manufacturer and get smokeless data from them. I have seen a few inlines in recent years that have blown up due to improper loading with smokeless. Go ahead and give it a whirl.

Your Quote: "smokeless is safer to use than black powder." Is it now? Can you provide us with proof showing how it is safer? I would beg to differ that Remington's Engineers would have a different opinion than you.

In case you did not read the manual that came with your Remington 700 ML here is part of the loading instructions;

Loading and Shooting Procedures
Use Black Powder or PYRODEX® Only
Never use modern smokeless gun powder even if it is black in color. Never use
any powder other than black powder or PYRODEX in a muzzleloader. The use of
any other propellant will cause serious injury or death to the shooter and
bystanders and damage to the firearm.
 
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Bigbore 35 said:
You obviously can't read can you. I SAID 150 GRAINS OF ( SHOCKEY STICKS X 3) NOT SMOKELESS this is why we have arguments like this.
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Ya, you did say that and that’s a perfectly safe load for your muzzleloader, although at the high end.
But you did say some other things that are questionable;

Quote [I have talked to other people recently that have had enough of this fear mongering BS that you are spewing as well. Using common sense, smokeless is safer to use than black powder. I want to here from people who have worked up safe loads in their ml, not this stuff. I believe that it is only a marketing scheme to keep black powder on the shelves and not a safety issue.] Quote

Smokeless loads in a muzzleloader that has a warning stamp on the barrel to only use BP, is dangerous and reckless.
 
I own two CVA inline muzzleloaders for deer hunting in SW Ontario. Watched all of CVA's videos and one that sticks out is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUUnDeVXD3M

Smokeless powder in a CVA and the effect. Ouch.

I've read about the Savage ML which takes modern smokeless powder but I have never tried one of them.

I have only used Pyrodex, Triple-7, or IMR White Hots in my CVA firearms.
 
Brutus said:
Ultimately threads such as this poisons a well thinking person on buying any used modern muzzleloader on our EE.

Edit: someday we will lose our handload section because of subjects just like this one.
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See, here we go again, fear mongering. Why loose anything? If you are not making a buffoon out of yourself then there should not be a reason to stop free speech. This is the kind of stuff that leftists love to do. They keep people afraid of thinking so they can benefit from that fear and implant stupidity into the minds of the people. I will be doing my own proof testing of barrels and will put it on u tube to prove these liars are just liars.
 
wasa said:
I own two CVA inline muzzleloaders for deer hunting in SW Ontario. Watched all of CVA's videos and one that sticks out is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUUnDeVXD3M

Smokeless powder in a CVA and the effect. Ouch.

I've read about the Savage ML which takes modern smokeless powder but I have never tried one of them.

I have only used Pyrodex, Triple-7, or IMR White Hots in my CVA firearms.
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I watched the video and saw immediately the deception they where spewing. They charged the muzzloader by volume using smokeless powder and not properly BY WEIGHT. ANOTHER LIE.
 
Bigbore 35 said:
See, here we go again, fear mongering. Why loose anything? If you are not making a buffoon out of yourself then there should not be a reason to stop free speech. This is the kind of stuff that leftists love to do. They keep people afraid of thinking so they can benefit from that fear and implant stupidity into the minds of the people. I will be doing my own proof testing of barrels and will put it on u tube to prove these liars are just liars.
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It's got nothing to do with fear mongering. God knows under my roof I have four ten gauge shotguns, two 45-70s one 458x2 inch American and one 458 win mag.

It's all about abusing an item outside its design parameters. Nothing more and nothing less.

You life insurance company would agree with many of us here.
 
Brutus said:
It's got nothing to do with fear mongering. God knows under my roof I have four ten gauge shotguns, two 45-70s one 458x2 inch American and one 458 win mag.

It's all about abusing an item outside its design parameters. Nothing more and nothing less.

You life insurance company would agree with many of us here.
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OK, so did you read the sticky on the use of smokeless in old bp guns? If not, please do so before coming at me with your agenda to save me. Like I said earlier, I am going to put this NO SMOKELESS TO THE TEST. Any donations of cheap muzzloaders would be great.
 
Bigbore 35 said:
OK, so did you read the sticky on the use of smokeless in old bp guns? If not, please do so before coming at me with your agenda to save me. Like I said earlier, I am going to put this NO SMOKELESS TO THE TEST. Any donations of cheap muzzloaders would be great.
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Use at your own risk. It's a bit different discharging a firecracker 32 or 38 rimfire at arm's length, hopefully in a converted cap and ball revolver with a lot of excess metal.

It's another thing altogether to risk lighting off what is quite probably a pipe bomb near your face. Using smokeless powder in a chamber designed for BP or BP substitute. Especially without the luxury of additional brass casing enclosing the propellant.
There are recent examples on the internet from hospital emergency rooms.
If you cannot understand that margin of error I don't know why we are discussing this anymore?
 
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