Conical for 1853 or 1856 Enfield?

Fox

Fox

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I found out that it shoots patched round balls well but the 1 in 78in twist does not shoot the long 58 cal conicals well.

Does anyone know of someone who makes a short conical? Lyman used to have a 315gr 58 cal conical but they no longer do.

Another option would probably be a hollow base snider bullet, lighter bullet, designed for the long snider, which would be the same 1 in 78in twist rate.

Thanks
 
Fox: The original bullet for the P53 was the "Pritchett" which was over 500 grains and had only a small base cavity (essentially a solid). That was replaced early in service by the 530 grain "Government bullet" which was, of course, a minie. Very late in the game a hollow nosed version (Metford) was being considered but it also was around 525 grains. All the preceding shot well. When the Snider came along the first bullet attempted was a hollow nose at 525 grains but which, apparently, didn't work well in the 1:78 3-band rifles. In Mk III ammo that was, once and for all, replaced with a 480 grain hollow base/ hollow nose which only changed in minor detail right out to Mark IX. For modern P53 shooters moulds are available that replicate the Enfield "Government bullet" but available Burton bullet .577 minie molds lack the nose hollow and so don't really mimic the bullets "designed for the long snider". However, these 525 grain solid nose minies will shoot well in slow twist Sniders and I know some folks use them in P53's. Current "state of the art" for Snider target shooting are .60 solids (around 525 grains) that will yield great accuracy but can't be used in muzzle-loaders.

milsurpo
 
NOE bullet moulds makes a Pritchet bullet mould for the enfields I recently purchased one and they are a quality mould

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milsurpo said:
Fox: The original bullet for the P53 was the "Pritchett" which was over 500 grains and had only a small base cavity (essentially a solid). That was replaced early in service by the 530 grain "Government bullet" which was, of course, a minie. Very late in the game a hollow nosed version (Metford) was being considered but it also was around 525 grains. All the preceding shot well. When the Snider came along the first bullet attempted was a hollow nose at 525 grains but which, apparently, didn't work well in the 1:78 3-band rifles. In Mk III ammo that was, once and for all, replaced with a 480 grain hollow base/ hollow nose which only changed in minor detail right out to Mark IX. For modern P53 shooters moulds are available that replicate the Enfield "Government bullet" but available Burton bullet .577 minie molds lack the nose hollow and so don't really mimic the bullets "designed for the long snider". However, these 525 grain solid nose minies will shoot well in slow twist Sniders and I know some folks use them in P53's. Current "state of the art" for Snider target shooting are .60 solids (around 525 grains) that will yield great accuracy but can't be used in muzzle-loaders.

milsurpo
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Ya, the 500+gr minies are hitting sideways, I am running the service load of 70gr, it was 2 1/2 dram (68gr) but just watching a few more youtube things it seems as though I may have to pull back to as low as 40gr and see what happens.

I was wondering about the 300gr and 315gr hollow base conicals, if they are actually possible to get anymore.
 
A pritchet bullet is a shallow hollow base minie bullet minus the grease grooves.This was the original bullet used for the Enfield rifles and was used in the civil war .The bullet is paper patched and dipped in lube and a plug was put in the cavity to help with bullet expansion.It sounds like you are having problems with your bullets expanding this is very common with shooting a minie rifle and can be caused by the size of the cavity in the bullet and the thickness of the bullets skirt.Too thin a skirt and a too high powder charge will blow it,too thick and the bullet will not expand enough to engage the rifling enough for accuracy.Basically you will have to find a minie bullet design that your rifle likes.The Parker hale made Enfield musket used a rcbs bullet mould minie bullet with a thicker skirt I believe.Also your bullet should be sized to your rifles bore
 
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chasseur said:
A pritchet bullet is a shallow hollow base minie bullet minus the grease grooves.This was the original bullet used for the Enfield rifles and was used in the civil war .The bullet is paper patched and dipped in lube and a plug was put in the cavity to help with bullet expansion.It sounds like you are having problems with your bullets expanding this is very common with shooting a minie rifle and can be caused by the size of the cavity in the bullet and the thickness of the bullets skirt.Too thin a skirt and a too high powder charge will blow it,too thick and the bullet will not expand enough to engage the rifling enough for accuracy.Basically you will have to find a minie bullet design that your rifle likes.The Parker hale made Enfield musket used a rcbs bullet mould minie bullet with a thicker skirt I believe.Also your bullet should be sized to your rifles bore
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These bullets were all undersized and blew out into the grooves, that is how they were designed, but the newer and reproduction 1 in 48in twist handles the long minies well and the 1 in 78in twist of the older guns not so much.

Do you know where pritchett bullets may be found in Canada?
 
Fox: The 1:78 twist of the 3-band rifles is adequate to stabilize the heavy, 525 grain minies (and even solids). Back in "the day" the same bullet was used in all P53's and was only marginally more accurate used in the 2-band, fast twist rifles. With my P53's (3-band) I use a .564 Govt. type bullet (hollow base, no grease grooves, original style paper cartridge) and have only had keyholing with a particularly shot out rifle. What is the condition of the rifle you're using? Regarding powder charge, lowering it will also lower the spin rate of the bullets which may make things worse.

milsurpo
 
milsurpo said:
Fox: The 1:78 twist of the 3-band rifles is adequate to stabilize the heavy, 525 grain minies (and even solids). Back in "the day" the same bullet was used in all P53's and was only marginally more accurate used in the 2-band, fast twist rifles. With my P53's (3-band) I use a .564 Govt. type bullet (hollow base, no grease grooves, original style paper cartridge) and have only had keyholing with a particularly shot out rifle. What is the condition of the rifle you're using? Regarding powder charge, lowering it will also lower the spin rate of the bullets which may make things worse.

milsurpo
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Where are you getting your pritchett bullets?

My gun has great rifling but one bulge, looks like the gun was short started, the bulge is about 8in down the bore. The gun shoots patched round balls amazingly well at 50 yards, they are touching, but even the 0.580in minies seem to keyhole with 70gr of FFFg, which is pretty much the service load. I was told to try backing the powder down, some guys on youtube have good luck with 40 and 50gr or FFFg.
 
Fox said:
Where are you getting your pritchett bullets?
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I obtained a mold from Steve Brooks in Montana. It casts a reasonable facsimile of the early minie (that followed the Pritchett). If you've watched any "British Muzzleloaders" videos, this is the mold he uses and, in fact, he provided Brooks with the specs.

milsurpo
 
milsurpo said:
I obtained a mold from Steve Brooks in Montana. It casts a reasonable facsimile of the early minie (that followed the Pritchett). If you've watched any "British Muzzleloaders" videos, this is the mold he uses and, in fact, he provided Brooks with the specs.

milsurpo
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I was actually chatting with him on facebook, the guy who makes those bullets is currently deployed, I will have to keep track of him into the fall.

Thanks

You said you get good luck with the longer and heavier minies? What charge are you using? Maybe I am just not doing something right with respect to the twist.

Is your gun original?
 
Fox: Yes, I have three originals that I have shot with bullets from the Brooks mold. All were with replica paper cartridges with wood base plugs in the bullets and the bullet portion of the cartridge dipped in medium hard beeswax based lube. I never vary from 70 grns Goex FFg for no reason other than that is close to the original military charge. Regarding bullets, I would imagine with shipping charges from the US for lead you could pay off the mold pretty fast.

milsurpo
 
milsurpo said:
Fox: Yes, I have three originals that I have shot with bullets from the Brooks mold. All were with replica paper cartridges with wood base plugs in the bullets and the bullet portion of the cartridge dipped in medium hard beeswax based lube. I never vary from 70 grns Goex FFg for no reason other than that is close to the original military charge. Regarding bullets, I would imagine with shipping charges from the US for lead you could pay off the mold pretty fast.

milsurpo
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So I better just hang tight until he gets back from deployment then, ha ha.

Thanks
 
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