10,000j OIC

Brian46

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May of us with the 460wby, 50BMG, 416, 375, etc have a problem if the OIC is left standing.

What are "suitable" replacements? Certain Canadians were given an exemption until a "suitable replacement" could be found, so I am curious what others have found with the same performance to be considered "suitable"
 
"Suitable replacement" is intentionally vague; could be any other NR firearm. You have access to a rusty, Chinese SKS? Those will take most Canadian game.
 
I keep thinking of getting a 500 Jeffry built in a "precision rifle" style. No, it won't have the same long range performance as a 50BMG but at least it's a 50 cal. Maybe throat it to use 660 and 750 gr 50 BMG bullets. It's a bit of a silly idea but gun owners have been known to pursue silly ideas. :)
 
I keep thinking of getting a 500 Jeffry built in a "precision rifle" style. No, it won't have the same long range performance as a 50BMG but at least it's a 50 cal. Maybe throat it to use 660 and 750 gr 50 BMG bullets. It's a bit of a silly idea but gun owners have been known to pursue silly ideas. :)

The 500 Jeffry is capable of launching a 600gr bullet with 10,840 J to 11,000 J with modern reloads according to Wikipedia. Would that make it illegal?
 
May of us with the 460wby, 50BMG, 416, 375, etc have a problem if the OIC is left standing.

What are "suitable" replacements? Certain Canadians were given an exemption until a "suitable replacement" could be found, so I am curious what others have found with the same performance to be considered "suitable"

Sounds like you are a racist & misogynist. How dare you!
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Look into the Enabelrs and XCs. I've been looking at building a boomer and it appears that the 338 and 375 Enabelr are both under the 10k limit. Looks like the 33xc is as well
 
The 500 Jeffry is capable of launching a 600gr bullet with 10,840 J to 11,000 J with modern reloads according to Wikipedia. Would that make it illegal?

Nope. According to Armalytics/the FRT there are still 500 Jeffery rifles that are NR.

Look into the Enabelrs and XCs. I've been looking at building a boomer and it appears that the 338 and 375 Enabelr are both under the 10k limit. Looks like the 33xc is as well

It would appear that 375 EnABLR is about as good as we can get for ELR these days?
 
The 500 Jeffry is capable of launching a 600gr bullet with 10,840 J to 11,000 J with modern reloads according to Wikipedia. Would that make it illegal?

The OIC has been such a clusterf@ck I don't know if they ever actually defined the method to determine energy levels but I assume they would need to look at something like SAAMI specs for factory ammunition rather than what someone conjures up at their reloading bench.
 
The OIC has been such a clusterf@ck I don't know if they ever actually defined the method to determine energy levels but I assume they would need to look at something like SAAMI specs for factory ammunition rather than what someone conjures up at their reloading bench.

It says "capable of..." which given the case law on those words means it includes barrel swaps & proof loads.

Ed Burlew addressed this:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/CSSA/PDF/2020-05-13-CSSA-Legal-Opinion-Capable-of-10K-Joules.pdf

Basically a Ruger No. 1 in .30-30 Winchester or 7.62x39 almost certainly meets the "capable of greater than 10,000J..." criterion.
 
Look into the Enabelrs and XCs. I've been looking at building a boomer and it appears that the 338 and 375 Enabelr are both under the 10k limit. Looks like the 33xc is as well

It says "capable of..." not "nominally designed for...".

Who do you think did the initial draft of the OIC? Definitely wasn't a government employee. They made sure to put those words in there for a reason.
 
It says "capable of..." not "nominally designed for...".

Who do you think did the initial draft of the OIC? Definitely wasn't a government employee. They made sure to put those words in there for a reason.

With that argument, the majority of centrefire rifles are prohibited then - As Rwilco points out above with things like barrel swaps and handloads made way too hot an extremely large percentage of guns could be prohibited under such a broad interpretation.

However, I see two major flaws with that logic - the FRT was changed on things like 460bee and 50bmg (but not 375 EnABLR or 500jeffrey), and that interpretation is clearly not in the spirit of the law (which as far as I'm aware is something judges consider?).

My interpretation is "capable of..." is used so you cannot download a cartridge like 50bmg to get around the limit. But I'm just a guy on the internet...
 
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The OIC has been such a clusterf@ck I don't know if they ever actually defined the method to determine energy levels but I assume they would need to look at something like SAAMI specs for factory ammunition rather than what someone conjures up at their reloading bench.

Determining the energy level of a fired projectile is relatively simple. Mass of projectile in Grams multiplied by Speed in Meters per second = Joules of Kinetic Energy.

The trick is determining whether a firearm is capable, under any circumstances, of producing such a shot. It can not be done by math, or by reading markins, or considering saami specs. It can only be confirmed by trying to actually fire a shot in excess of 10kj. This is consistent with the current forensic practice of determining whether a barrelled object meets the definition of firearm, which at the lower bound, requires it be proven that a firearm can fire a with sufficient energy to cause serious bodily harm.

With that argument, the majority of centrefire rifles are prohibited then - As Rwilco points out above with things like barrel swaps and handloads made way too hot an extremely large percentage of guns could be prohibited under such a broad interpretation.

However, I see two major flaws with that logic - the FRT was changed on things like 460bee and 50bmg, and that interpretation is clearly not in the spirit of the law (which as far as I'm aware is something judges consider?).

My interpretation is "capable of..." is used so you cannot download a cartridge like 50bmg to get around the limit. But I'm just a guy on the internet...
Exactly correct. And this is where most gun owners fail to realize just how overly broad the OiC is. The RCMP are trying to take a more narrow approach because it serves their interests to not capture all of the firearms which are captured. The liberal government is pretending that their definition isn't as broad as it actually is, and the gun orgs are probably keeping quiet because overbreadth is one of their possible arguments at the federal court challenges.

What you see as flaws in the logic, are not flaws in the logic. They are problems with the implications of the logic, but that doesn't prove or disprove whether the interpretation is correct, that simply suggests that if the interpretation were properly applied and fully enforced, 2/3rds of the centre fire rifles in Canada are now prohibited.

Don't talk about the FRT as if that is an authority on anything.

The FRT is a book of lies.

The Classification Regulations now say that a firearm capable of firing a shot in excess of 10kj is prohibited.

The Criminal code says, and has said for decades, that a firearm is both a whole firearm, a receiver only, and anything that can be adapted to be either a whole firearm or a receiver only.

If a given receiver can be configured in multiple chamberings, and one of those chambers is over the limit, than the receiver itself becomes prohibited, regardless of what its chambered for. The RCMP are pretending that only firearms PRESENTLY chambered in a +10KJ chamber is prohibited, but as we know the RCMP Drones change their minds like they change their underwear, and they have not yet, ever, testified on behalf of a gun owner at their trial. Even if the law expressly stated only firearms in their current form are prohibited if capable of 10kj, the Hasselwander ruling could immediately be applied such that any firearm readily convertible is still prohibited. Most centre guns can swap barrels with a bench vice and a pipe wrench in under a minute, and would easily pass the hasselwander test.

But all this is picking pepper out of Fly #hit, because most bolt action rifles have already been vulnerable to being deemed prohibited simply by virtue of the nebulous manner in which 'variant or modified version' can and has been applied to other firearms on the previous OIC list, which already included numerous bolt action rifles.
 
Look into the Enabelrs and XCs. I've been looking at building a boomer and it appears that the 338 and 375 Enabelr are both under the 10k limit. Looks like the 33xc is as well
Not for hunting, you can go to a third world dirt country on safari and they will have 460wby to buy, no enabler
 
The Criminal code says, and has said for decades, that a firearm is both a whole firearm, a receiver only, and anything that can be adapted to be either a whole firearm or a receiver only.

Might be a little off topic, but I'm always curious on how the term "adapted" is interpreted at court? Is there any case precedent available as reference? Seems the wording here is very broad too, because any firearm/receiver is "adapted" from something where something could simply be raw material.

Thanks
 
I have been watching around where I live. Have spotted a few cannons in peoples yards. Depending on how this plays out I might take a drive down to rcmp headquarters and demand they go remove prohibited weapons from people’s gardens. Wonder if rebel news would show up ??
 
Not for hunting, you can go to a third world dirt country on safari and they will have 460wby to buy, no enabler

My bad. I saw 50bmg in your first post and assumed you were taking about the 416 Barrett and 375 cheytac (ELR). Didn't realize this was posted in the hunting section
 
My bad. I saw 50bmg in your first post and assumed you were taking about the 416 Barrett and 375 cheytac (ELR). Didn't realize this was posted in the hunting section

I think the majority of the 416 or 375 cal stuff that has a hunting origin (as opposed to an ELR or tactical origin) are still legal? 375 Weatherby, 416 Ruger or Rem Mag or Rigby, 458 Win Mag and Lott, 470 NE, 505 Gibbs... I think all of those would still be classified as NR rifles under the current interpretation the RCMP has taken with regards to the OIC? You can find examples of all of these cartridges on the FRT for Non-restricted rifles, whereas the FRT was changed to prohibited for models in 460 Weatherby and 50 BMG.
 
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