Can't get acceptable accuracy with Savage Mk2 G

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m_falafel

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Sherbrooke Qc
So here's a bit of context.

I have a Savage Mk2 G (the model with a wood stock, a sporter barrel and open sights). I've had this rifle as a backyard fun rifle for years. I was living in a rural area and had made myself a little 30 yard range with metal targets. It was essentially a plinking gun, and I always only used the open sights. It always worked right for what it was used for. It has seen a lot of use though. It probably has shot between 2000 and 3000 rounds through it's barrel since I bought it new.

But I had to sell my house last year. A few weeks ago, I decided to put a 2-7x scope (a Leupold) on this rifle and bring it to the range. After sighting the scope for a 50 yard zero, I started doing 5 round groups at 50 yards. Here's a list of all the ammo brands I have tried until now:

Remington Thunderbolt
CCI standard Velocity
CCI Stinger
CCI Velocitor
CCI subsonic
Federal Automatch
Federal Match

I know that none of these are really upper grade stuff, but my accuracy has been really inconsistent across the board. Not only are they kind of big groups (all of the are around 2-2.5 inches, but they also are weirdly spaced. Like, there may be 3 rounds bundled together, then 2 flyers.

Another weird fact is that I don't see any difference between the really cheap stuff and the Federal Match (which I assume should perform well?!).

As of now, I have torqued the action screws at 15lbs. I have done the dollar bill test and the barrel does not contact the stock. I have also verified and torqued scope base screws and rings.

Finally, I am normally a decent shooter. On the bench I usually am able to shoot 1.5 moa with my Ruger American .223 at 100 and 200 yards. So I'm pretty sure I am not the problem here... If I can do 1.5 inches at 100yd with a .223 I should be able to do 0.75 inches at 50yd with a .22lr!

Any ideas? Is my barrel worn out? Or are my expectations too high? Any other ammo I should try?
 
What is the parallax setting on the scope?
If it’s 100 or 150 yards like some Leupolds ( non-Rimfire) that could mess with your 50 yard results for group size.
If it’s a 2-7 Rimfire version, parallax should be okay.
 
My first 'guess' would be a possible carbon ring causing some flyers but each of those brands will have a different POI because they're diff speeds. If the Fed Match is the 'Gold Medal' it should be the most accurate but should be almost a 'good' as the CCI-SV. How is the trigger - light and crisp? MKIIs are respected for there accuracy so unless it really is 'shot out' there could be another issue. Do you have access to a borescope, you could have a build-up of lead after a few thou rounds ? And are you cleaning between brands? Then shooting 5-10 to 're-lube' before trying to get a good group? Any wind that could move bullets? 10mph breeze/gusts can move a 22 almost an inch at 50. Last, you should have a more powerful scope to try to get good groups; I use a 6-25x50 Covenant-4 on my B22 and can stay around 3/4" easily and 'better' if I take my time.
*Just saw the post about parallax, forgot to mention that :rolleyes: good call Extremacanuck - :)
Lots of 'guesses' that you can investigate,
Hope you find something quick and get back to enjoying yourself.
Buck
 
2000 - 3000 rounds is far from being shot out, have you tried a group at about 25 yd to see what kind of results you get? How often do you clean the barrel, and I don't mean a quick wet patch then a couple of dry patches I am talking a proper cleaning. You could also start playing this the action screw torque 15 in lbs is a good starting point but I am betting it is not tight enough. I have yet to find a .22 that is happy at 15 in lbs. Also as mentioned the environmental factor can realy mess with a .22 when you start to stretch it out to 50 yd and beyond this is why I suggest you try a 25yd group or two and see what you get.
 
koikeeper67 said:
2000 - 3000 rounds is far from being shot out, have you tried a group at about 25 yd to see what kind of results you get? How often do you clean the barrel, and I don't mean a quick wet patch then a couple of dry patches I am talking a proper cleaning. You could also start playing this the action screw torque 15 in lbs is a good starting point but I am betting it is not tight enough. I have yet to find a .22 that is happy at 15 in lbs. Also as mentioned the environmental factor can realy mess with a .22 when you start to stretch it out to 50 yd and beyond this is why I suggest you try a 25yd group or two and see what you get.
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Thanks everybody for all your ideas, I will tinker with this rifle this evening. How much torque can I put on those action screws before risking damaging the wood stock?

And what group size should I get at 25 yard?? Also, it was very gusty yesterday, I’ll try to go back when it’ll be calmer.
 
xtremacanuck said:
What is the parallax setting on the scope?
If it’s 100 or 150 yards like some Leupolds ( non-Rimfire) that could mess with your 50 yard results for group size.
If it’s a 2-7 Rimfire version, parallax should be okay.
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Very good question… it’s a really old scope that I got in a trade. I had a hard time focusing tho. It seemed very hard to have both the target and the crosshair in focus at the same time.
 
I think xtremacanuck is on the right track. I've aways had better results with standard velocity, as opposed to high or low speed ammo in all my .22 rimfires FWIW.
 
m_falafel said:
Very good question… it’s a really old scope that I got in a trade. I had a hard time focusing tho. It seemed very hard to have both the target and the crosshair in focus at the same time.
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Try and test with a new scope which you know works... if things are blurry, are the lenses staying in place when you shoot?

Find a box of SK rifle match or Std+ (all of ours preferred SK RM)... clean, foul, test. If this doesn't improve the performance substantially, you may have issues from bedding to barrel.

but start with the optic... if you can't see clearly, doesn't help with aiming.

When loading, assume it is smooth and you don't need to 'cram' the bolt to force the bullet to chamber? Damaging the nose while loading will really affect downrange results.

Good luck.

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
Try and test with a new scope which you know works... if things are blurry, are the lenses staying in place when you shoot?

Find a box of SK rifle match or Std+ (all of ours preferred SK RM)... clean, foul, test. If this doesn't improve the performance substantially, you may have issues from bedding to barrel.

but start with the optic... if you can't see clearly, doesn't help with aiming.

When loading, assume it is smooth and you don't need to 'cram' the bolt to force the bullet to chamber? Damaging the nose while loading will really affect downrange results.

Good luck.

Jerry
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I definately will try with a better scope, hopefully this evening if I can manage to get there before sunset…

And yeah, no problem with the the bullets getting in the chamber. Everything feels smooth. I tested loading the rounds a few times and getting them out again to see if there was any damage on the bullets. Doesn’t seem to be any that’s visible.
 
All pretty crap ammo for 'target shooting' really... try some Lapua Center-X or SK rifle match, those seem to be the ones most Savages M2's have liked that I have seen.

Also I don't know a single person that target shoots with a 2-7 power scope, (to me, that's a short range bush hunting scope) and I have NEVER seen one at a precision rimfire match. Aim small, shoot small.
 
Great post and question. A few things jumped out at me reading the thread starter;

1.those ammunition choices are (mostly) not ideal for determining the accuracy of the gun or at least, not the choices I would make. I think @ 50 yards, as mentioned already, you're best-off of subsonic ammunition, or, standard velocity. 22LR ammo, unless designed to be extra fast or very slow/quiet, falls into these 2 general categories, and velocities are set to be safely below, or well over the speed of sound. For reasons I haven't actually read much about, subsonic ammo has an accuracy advantage in almost all cases. High velocity has other advantages like increased distance, more effectiveness hunting in certain situations, etc. It's been my experience, with maybe 1 exception, that every 22 I've ever owned shot multiple subsonic ammo types very well, and maybe 1 high velocity choice just OK. Certain ammo types like CCI Stinger-I've never owned a single 22 that shot it accurately, or even close. I'm sure there are lots of guys on this forum who have owned far more 22s than I have, but I'll also say that the sample of rifles I've tried it in is nothing to scoff at either. What WOULD I suggest? CCI SV is always worth having/using/testing, but others I always try (when figuring out what a gun likes) include CCI LR HP, SK Standard, SK Rifle Match, Federal Gold medal target and various Eley loads. I've only started to really give Eley a good try in the last couple of years and generally find more accuracy with SK. Most recently, SK "Flatnose Basic". While I sometimes flirt with the top-tier ammo options like Lapua, RWS etc, I have no intention of competing or spending $30/50 as a general rule, so those are more "getting to know your gun" distractions.

2.clean bore? A perfectly clean bore can work against accuracy, but so too can a very dirty one. Never a bad idea to start fresh, give it a proper cleaning, etc.

3.crown? The exact point on the muzzle where the bullet exits needs to be in perfect condition or at least, not damaged by careless use of a cleaning rod. I would inspect the crown on the barrel if you haven't already.

4.scope-someone touched on parallax, and that's key. I've had a friend challenge me on that assertion, but I've experienced parallax error shooting @ 40 yards, using a cheap 3-9 scope with a 100 yard parallax setting. The OP has mentioned everything is torqued down to spec, so we can assume nothing is loose. I DO remember reading something about Savage rifles, at one time, having their Weaver bases not inline on new guns. If the OP is shooting at a fixed distance, I think it's safe to assume that wouldn't be the issue.

5.the 2-7 magnification range @ 50 yards=most of my shooting IS with 22s, @ 50 yards. For me and my eyes (that are over 1/2 a century old) I would feel as though I was at a disadvantage target shooting with a scope that maxes-out @ 7X, at that distance. At 7X, I can only assume the centre of your target is mostly obscured by the reticle itself. This would make shot-to-shot consistency difficult. For me at least. Are you (=the OP) able to EASILY see bullet holes on your 50 yard target? That's sort of the benchmark for me. Naturally, a very high-quality scope @ 7X would be a better choice than a $50 one with 16X for instance. For this kind of shooting, I only use AO (Adjustable Objective) or SF (Side focus) scopes with a top end between 12X-16X. If hunting, or shooting pests with the same gun, I'm likely to dial it down to about 7-9X for a larger field of view.

6.proper rest/good trigger? I'm in the midst of reconsidering the rests I use, but suffice to say, a good front/rear rest go a long way. I use good quality, heavy bags front/rear..but depending on the stock shape=works better with some guns, not so well with others. I imagine the OP has his Savage Accutrigger dialled down to the lowest setting? I think on the Savage rimfires, they'll do down to about 2-1/2 lbs. Some would consider that light, but when you get used to triggers far lighter, a 2-1/2lb pull feels pretty heavy. The G model Savages have standard weight barrel, so I always consider what that pull weight is vs the weight of the gun itself.

I'm inclined to be long winded, obviously :) ...but I would suggest an AO scope 3-9 minimum, 4-12 better. More decent quality, subsonic ammo choices, and a clean bore as starting points. Technique/rests/trigger=also matter, but they'd be next on the list. You can get used to a crappy trigger. :)

As someone else has mentioned on this forum several times, and I'm paraphrasing, "a gun can't outshoot the ammo". Everything else could be in place/perfect, but if the gun doesn't shoot the ammo well...
 
sk8snwmx said:
All pretty crap ammo for 'target shooting' really... try some Lapua Center-X or SK rifle match, those seem to be the ones most Savages M2's have liked that I have seen.

Also I don't know a single person that target shoots with a 2-7 power scope, (to me, that's a short range bush hunting scope) and I have NEVER seen one at a precision rimfire match. Aim small, shoot small.
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While its not the greatest ammo, at least some of it should be able to do better than 2"+ at 50yds. My Mk II (also a sporter weight barrel model) will consistently put CCI Standard into 1" or better, with 1/2" groups not uncommon. And thats using a cheap $50 3-9x32mm Rimfire scope. My favorite ammo thus far for that rifle has been Remington Eley Target, (https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/remington-eley-target-22lr-40gr-lrn-box-of-50-21252.html) it seems to be more consistent than CCI standard, at least in my gun, although I haven't shot a crap ton of it and what I have was all purchased at the same time, maybe I just got a good lot... At $9/50 its not CHEAP ammo, but its still half the price of something like Center-X.
 
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Suther said:
While its not the greatest ammo, at least some of it should be able to do better than 2"+ at 50yds. My Mk II (also a sporter weight barrel model) will consistently put CCI Standard into 1" or better, with 1/2" groups not uncommon. And thats using a cheap $50 3-9x32mm Rimfire scope. My favorite ammo thus far for that rifle has been Remington Eley Target, (https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/remington-eley-target-22lr-40gr-lrn-box-of-50-21252.html) it seems to be more consistent than CCI standard, at least in my gun, although I haven't shot a crap ton of it and what I have was all purchased at the same time, maybe I just got a good lot... At $9/50 its not CHEAP ammo, but its still half the price of something like Center-X.
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I'd agree that CCI SV should do better for sure, (although lots of people get failure to eject with CCI SV because of all the wax, If you call Savage they will apparently even send you a new ejector spring)

I don't care how good the glass is, would still never suggest a 2-7 or 3-9 scope for 'target shooting' even at only 50m.

Maybe the gun is a lemon, completely clean the thing out and shoot some decent ammo, if it shoots the same I'd send it back...
 
sk8snwmx said:
I'd agree that CCI SV should do better for sure, (although lots of people get failure to eject with CCI SV because of all the wax, If you call Savage they will apparently even send you a new ejector spring)

I don't care how good the glass is, would still never suggest a 2-7 or 3-9 scope for 'target shooting' even at only 50m.

Maybe the gun is a lemon, completely clean the thing out and shoot some decent ammo, if it shoots the same I'd send it back...
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Almost everyone at our club uses this as their regular ammo; no one has ejection issues regardless of the make/model of rifle or pistol unless they are a potmetal POS like a GSG (they have issues with everything).
 
I have the same rifle. Tried different ammo at 1st and settled on American Eagle 38gr. which provides excellent accuracy. CCI standard is also very good but America Eagle is still better. I have a 3x9 scope for 50 yards, something is wrong, rifle or scope if it's all over the place at 50yds. These are accurate rifles. Good luck I know it's frustrating.
 
I'm going to chime in here, but I feel like a downer.
I had a mk2 g for a short period. I tried most of the ammunition you did, along with several more. It's accuracy was sub par with them all, around 2" at 50 yards, like yours. I have had 3 semi auto marlins that all out shot it. Heck, my toz8 shoots better with just iron sights. So I moved it on. I chalked it up as the one I had was a lemon. But maybe not. My thought at the time was: why bother with a bolt action 22 that doesn't shoot better than a semi?
 
I also have a savage Mkii - heavy fluted stainless barrel - I have spent WAY too much time and money trying to get anything approaching decent accuracy- typical accuracy at 50 yds is 6 to 10 inches - with cci mini mags on a good day maybe 2.5 inches- standard Ammo including sks, eley goes back to 6 inches or more - it shoots so bad I cannot in good faith sell it - cut your losses and buy a cz or a tikka
 
The OP mentions he's torqued the action screws to 15 lbs. Don't know what's recommended for that rifle, but for the 10/22 specs call for 18 to 25 INCH lbs.
OP, did you mean inch pounds?
 
TungstenJohn said:
I also have a savage Mkii - heavy fluted stainless barrel - I have spent WAY too much time and money trying to get anything approaching decent accuracy- typical accuracy at 50 yds is 6 to 10 inches - with cci mini mags on a good day maybe 2.5 inches- standard Ammo including sks, eley goes back to 6 inches or more - it shoots so bad I cannot in good faith sell it - cut your losses and buy a cz or a tikka
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Get a gunsmith to check the bedding and crown. If the bedding has had a chance to soak up oil, it may be a problem. Tighten up action screws to the point it starts to require effort to tighten. Test. If results are bad increase tension slightly. Test. Repeat until you find the tension the rifle likes. Tension on the screw will be ammo dependant, including lot dependant sometimes. The crown even if lightly dinged will be a problem.
 
snooker said:
The OP mentions he's torqued the action screws to 15 lbs. Don't know what's recommended for that rifle, but for the 10/22 specs call for 18 to 25 INCH lbs.
OP, did you mean inch pounds?
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18-25 inch pounds is where most rimfires function best in my experience. However I did have a marlin that like the screws torqued to 31 inch pound. Every rifle has it's preference.
 
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