Can anyone tell me about this 2-band 1872 snider enfield?

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walter23

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I picked this up at the local shop. I know it is a mark III snider enfield, 2 band short rifle, with canadian issue stamp on the buttstock (DC - dominion of canada).

Don't know much else: if it has been refurbished, if the barrel is original, etc. Curious about the crown, almost looks like it was cut down like a longer barrel was cut and fitted to this at some point. Would one of the proof marks or something help figure out if this was the case?

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Crown looks kind of weird now that I think about it, perhaps roughly cut down from a longer barrel during a refurbishment?

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One other question, on the stock opposite the lock (left hand side of stock) there is a hole... is there a screw or pin missing, or is that for some other purpose?
 
Snider Enfield MK III Steel made. Sergeants Model steel hardware. BSA made but with an Enfield stock. Sold out of service.. DC Canadian. Minor crown chatter, perhaps a recrown. Needs a T guard pin for that hole. And a piece of leather for the protector.
Nice rifle I like it.
 
walter23 said:
One other question, on the stock opposite the lock (left hand side of stock) there is a hole... is there a screw or pin missing, or is that for some other purpose?
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There is a pin in that hole which secures a lug on the trigger guard.
 
Walter23: Some mixing of parts here which is not unusual. The barrel, shoe, and stock are Enfield while lock and breech block are BSA pieces. Originally (ie from factory) there would have been no mixing of parts like that. It's pretty much impossible to determine whether these changes were made in Canadian service as I don't believe there were any standard markings used by Canadian armourers as compared to repaired rifles in the UK that very commonly have arsenal repair stamps. One indication as regards the breech block might be how well it fits as one would suspect an armourer would attempt to locate a replacement that fit snugly (there were headspace specs for these rifles). They are actually safe to shoot with a fair bit of wiggle in the block but i have one that fit so poorly I relegated it to wall hanger.

milsurpo
 
QM 86 said:
Snider Enfield MK III Steel made. Sergeants Model steel hardware. BSA made but with an Enfield stock. Sold out of service.. DC Canadian. Minor crown chatter, perhaps a recrown. Needs a T guard pin for that hole. And a piece of leather for the protector.
Nice rifle I like it.
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Thanks; I will check to see if there's a pin hidden in the recess or not. From the sounds of it, it holds the trigger guard in place?
 
For some first loads I have a choice of .600 diam. 530gr projectiles, or .578 diam. 425gr projectiles. Any idea what would be more suitable for the steel barrel 2band I have?

Don't have anything to slug bore with at the moment
 
Walter23: For .60's you will need fireformed brass. My approach was to start with .575 Lee minies loaded into sized brass made out of 24g cases using Lee dies. After a while I started setting aside fireformed brass for individual rifles and then started loading .60's. You could likely manage to squeeze the .578 bullets you mentioned into sized cases as a starting point. I still shoot both minies and solid .60's. The .60's may be more accurate but getting the lube right isn't easy.

For your 5-groove rifle the .60's should be fine. Not much point slugging the bore as the depth of grooves decreases to the muzzle. better to do a chamber cast that catches a bit of the rifling. I've done casts on around 10 different Sniders and haven't found much variability at the chamber end. All had groove depths appropriate for .60's. Frankly, it's the 3-band rifles I worry about shooting .60's in. Unlike the 5-groove bores they are mainly .577 "land" and must squeeze the .60's big-time. For fun I chopped up a shot out Mk II** barrel and squeezed (pounded) a .60 through the first 4" above the chamber. The bullet was really badly deformed with the grease grooves all closed up and the bullet badly deformed at the base.

milsurpo
 
Your Snider is marked to the 3rd Battalion Victoria Rifles out of Montreal. That battalion participated in fighting the Fenians and was present at the Battle of Eccles Hill in 1870 but, your gun is from the post Fenian raid era.
 
Incurable Collectoer said:
Your Snider is marked to the 3rd Battalion Victoria Rifles out of Montreal. That battalion participated in fighting the Fenians and was present at the Battle of Eccles Hill in 1870 but, your gun is from the post Fenian raid era.
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I had a great Gramd Uncle that was in the 3VVR. I have his Fenian Raid medal, Pte. J. Brady 3rd V.V.R. is the attribution on the medal. He went on to become a quite well known mining Engineer out this side of the Country, in addition to supplying my great grandfather with his daughter as a bride!

As I understand it, the participants in that little party, had to apply for the medals some years after the fact, they were not issued out in any real reasonable period immediately after. I have the receipt that came with the medal too.

Am out of my depth as to which mark gives you the attribution to the VVR. The number under the Enfield stamp? The 3 over the 23? I'd have taken the latter as simply being a rack and space number in the Armory, ie: rack 3. 23rd space over.
 
trevj,

Here is my logic: The gun is marked DC so it is a Canadian militia gun. The approved Canadian Militia markings for the era are unit mark over rack number. So 3 is the 3rd battalion and 23 is the rack number.
 
Incurable Collectoer said:
trevj,

Here is my logic: The gun is marked DC so it is a Canadian militia gun. The approved Canadian Militia markings for the era are unit mark over rack number. So 3 is the 3rd battalion and 23 is the rack number.
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OK, cool!

Thanks! It's pretty interesting how many different rabbit holes there are, to go down, as far as History and collecting goes. I did some time in the Military, and years after my grandfather and almost all of my Father's generation had passed away, I was handed a box with several medals in it, with the thought that I might be willing to care for them, well after it was too late to glean many details from the family members that may have had them stored away in memory. All I had heard Brady referred to in the very few conversations he had came up in, was as "the mercenary", so having this solid bit of evidence that he had in fact been part of the Military, was an interesting link to the past.

Thanks!
 
I had a quick looked at the Fenian Raids records and the 3rd Battalion had two members with the last name Brady one was James and the other was Frederic J.

The Canadian marked Sniders are great collector items. The militia participated in several military campaigns while they were armed with the Snider and while there are some inconsistencies in the markings they tend to have clear markings and it is generally easy to identify the units they are marked to.
 
Incurable Collectoer said:
I had a quick looked at the Fenian Raids records and the 3rd Battalion had two members with the last name Brady one was James and the other was Frederic J.

The Canadian marked Sniders are great collector items. The militia participated in several military campaigns while they were armed with the Snider and while there are some inconsistencies in the markings they tend to have clear markings and it is generally easy to identify the units they are marked to.
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James Brady, was the Father of my Great Grandfather's wife. One of these days, I would like to get hold of a example of the era VVR cap badge, to put in a frame with his medal and a photo of him. As I understand it, the VVR was formed, essentially, around a core group that had mostly in common, being members of the same tennis club, in Montreal.

Dunno if it would have changed things, but I found out my family connections to the Military pretty much after all the folks most versed in the History, were gone. My Great Grandfather was in the Royal Navy as a Ships Doctor on board the West Coast Fleet Flagship of the time, HMS Warspite, before that name ended up on one of the most decorated ships in Royal Navy history. He left the Navy and became a fairly well known, and very successful Surgeon in Victoria. My Grandfather graduated out of Royal Military College Kingston, shortly after WW1, got cut loose by the Military, without having to serve the normal 7 years after graduating, as they were awash in young officers, and downsizing in the post-war, and during WW2 he grew seeds used to camouflage the newly built bunkers for fixed gun emplacements.
 
Incurable Collectoer said:
Fascinating family history. It's good that you managed to save some of this before it was all lost.
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Yeah, it is.

The shame of it is the stuff that WAS lost, with the folks that passed away before they could pass on the history they knew, both of the family members, as well as of the family owned properties.

I can clearly recall times when someone mentioned a family member's name, and the room going quiet. When asked about it, the only answer was "We don't talk about him!", pretty much in the same sort of tones that James Brady was referred to as "the mercenary".

I have no one now, that can answer the question, as to why he was called that, if it had to do with being involved in the VVR, or if he was off adventuring before or after that stint.
 
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