New NR R18MK2 from Sterling
- Thread starter Uniacke
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ummmm no, actually he's 110% correct that cutout is the forward assist.
Eugene Stoner, the man who designed the rifle, said it was utterly unnecessary and that, during the millions of rounds fired during the development of the AR-10 and the AR-15, he never saw a situation arise that would have been solved by the FA. The U.S. Air Force pretty much said the same thing. About a thousand Colt AR-15s without a forward assist were used by South Vietnamese troops under U.S. advisors in 1962 before the adoption of the M16 and they did not report issues that would have been fixed by an FA.
You may have noticed an indent in the exposed side of every AR bolt carrier group. It’s visible in the ejection port when the gun is in battery. If there is no malfunction and you simply closed the bolt slowly and the round isn’t fully seated (most of the time, if the gun is clean and lubed, it will simply chamber no matter how slowly you do this) putting your thumb in this indent and pushing forward will allow the round to be fully seated, then you flip on the safety and close the dust cover. That’s why the indent is there.
PinaKaleada
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That curve is to interact with the dust cover spring/detent housing. It will hit the detent housing as soon as the BCG has came back enough and bolt has been rotated fully.
Besides, if you have a smooth bolt with no cut out, where does that dustcover spring detent housing close on?
Besides #2, that curve is a horrible ergonomic design for your thumb to interact with, by now you'd think there would be other designs to improve the "pushability" for your thumb. Nope, they're all the exact curve... why?
See picture below:
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apexanimal
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Then how come that indent on the carrier is the perfect negative space needed to not hit the dustcover spring/detent housing, until the bolt has been rotated fully and unlocked before hitting that housing, pushing the ejection cover open?
Like try making a smooth bolt with no cut out, where does that dustcover spring detent housing close on? Why is there a curve on that cutout? The curve is horrible ergonomics for your thumb to interface with, by now you'd think someone would have modified it if forward assist was the main function, but it's continually been made with a curve...
Picture of the spring/detent housing closed on the cutout from underneath:
Sorry but the guys right, i saw it on forgotten weapons lol. The negative space is utilized for the dust cover yes, but the negative space doesnt need to be anywhere near that large or that shape. Yeah its a stupid design for a forward assist, but it was (this parts just my theory, no evidence for this whatsoever) probably just made so they could technically say they *had* a forward assist when marketing the rifle in its early days...before the army made them put a real one on.
PinaKaleada
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I could be wrong, but the negative space coincides with how much travel you need for the BCG, for the bolt to fully rotate, before knocking the dust cover out. Hence the length of the cutout.
If you listen closely to the gas tube, somehow the dust cover gets knocked out right when the gas tube disengages the gas key...exact moment/length too, at least on all my milspec ARs
apexanimal
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Im sure the guy who designed it after deciding what he wanted the bolt to look like, made it do many many things simultaneously, he was a smart guy. Point remains tho is that silly thing was in fact intended to be used as a forward assist (which is ridiculous, dont get me wrong lol). Luckily nobody ever needs a forward assist anyway (in stoner's opinion) so its not a big deal.
PinaKaleada
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I understand, allow me to point out one more thing.
Viet war M16s were fielded around 1964, so the "jams" happened then. But the AR10 were made with a dustcover and corresponding cutout seen as early as 1950s. I'm thinking that cutout has got to pre-date the whole vietnam war M16 jamming and forward assist era.
Check out this video of a 1957 AR10, it's got the cutout already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCmHxieQduE
Some more pictures:
The final "NATO/Portuguese" variant of the original AR10 has a Cocking Handle that can be depressed, which engages a cut-out in the top of the Bolt Carrier to make the Cocking Handle itself a "Forward Assist". Just like firearms with a fixed Cocking Handle (eg. AR-180), where the Handle itself acts as the Forward Assist.
Hokus Grey
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This is a fantastic example of a typical gun forum thread.
What were we talking about, anyway?
What were we talking about, anyway?
Look on the bright side, notwithstanding the minor delays in bringing this new rifle to market at least nobody has $$ tied up in a pre-order or some such arrangement. JR is doing his level best to avoid building hype until the rifle is ready for prime-time, which is a good thing in my estimation. Let's just be patient....
apexanimal
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Pretty simple, someone expressed discontent about the lack of a forward assist on the rifle this thread is about; this lead to a discussion on the necessity of the forward assist, with obvious parallels drawn to the rifle designed by the same guy who designed the rifle that, again, this thread is about. Talking about an AR18 design and having the AR15 inevitably popping up is by no means a mind boggling occurrence lol.
Well, the IRG project to mate a PWS Piston Upper with a proprietary AR-180-style Lower Receiver appears to be dead in the water, so you may have a long wait for that one. The latest Spectre version appears to have a decent, revamped AR-180 Lower Receiver, however it still appears to employ the less than ideal AR-180 Bolt Catch system.
The R18 Mk2 is an entirely new platform that exists in prototype form and is definitely going into production - I have seen photos of the production parts being lined up at TSE for assembly. They are just awaiting a few critical parts from sub-contractors so that assembly of the first production guns can proceed. IMHO, this is the one to wait for. Notwithstanding the proprietary lower (required for NR classification) the R18 Mk2 employs all AR controls, including the Bolt-Catch system, which is infinitely superior to the Spectre Ltd improved system's AR-180-style Bolt-Catch. Plus the R18 Mk2 has other advanced features that the compentition lacks, such as a match-grade barrel with forward fluting to increase rigidity and surface area for rapid cooling. It also features the familiar AR15-style Magazine Well geometry, and accepts AR-15 Trigger Packs as well as Beavertail-style Pistol Grips. I could go on, but that would ruin some of the neat surprises that I am waiting to reveal in my forthcoming review. Suffice it to say that IF the R18 Mk2 is both accurate and reliable, and IF it is priced right, then we will have a clear winner worth waiting for. That is what I hope to confirm with my review, for your benefit. But you will have to wait until the rifle is ready for primetime, as JR Cox rightfully refuses to engage in unwarranted hype and empty promises about delivery timelines. Hopefully the wait will be worthwhile - I hope that it is, but my trial will tell the tale good, bad or otherwise.
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