swapping CCI 450 for CCI BR-4 in my F T/R 308 load

Munkey1973

Munkey1973

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I finished up the season and had just enough BR-4 primers that I bought 2 seasons ago.
I had acquired a brick of CCI 450s in the late spring.
I wanted BR-4s but with supply challenges being what they are at the moment - I took what I could find.

I do not have any experience with these 450 primers and I might want to test these out before the snow hits the ground instead of waiting until spring.
I want to redevelop my load... while trying not use up too many components.

I am currently running 2nd Gen. Sierra 200 MKs in Lapua Palma with 43.0 Varget..... yields about 2,660 fps (and has been know to have an ES of 8 fps on 15 round strings).

Is it advisable to keep the existing load and just change the primer ?

Or should redevelop the load from square one?

Wondering if I need to adjust my powder charge to try and achieve 2,660 fps second again.

Curious, how do others rate the 450s relative to BR-4s ... better for consistency or worse ?
 
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I use both and some Fed-205M's. Many have found the CCI450's to be better than the BR4's but its really down to whatever you get the best load with. I've switched between all 3 a few times without changing load, it was close enough for me.
For a while some had issues with some batch of BR4's not lighting up, it's happen with BR2's and others too, but I've never had a primer of any kind not fire in my TR/FTR rifle.
Out of the 3, CCI 450's are what I'll buy more of when I need more small primers, and they're less $.
 
If I remember correctly, the 450 are a magnum (ie.: hotter) rifle primer. I would be inclined to drop my load a few (5-7) percent and test to see what works best.
 
oneadam12 said:
Should be no difference. The only difference apart from the packaging is that the BR is visually inspected before packaging.
Click to expand...
That's my understanding as well. The 450 and the BR4 are the same primer but the BR4 goes through extra inspection steps. Interchangeable.
 
oneadam12 said:
Should be no difference. The only difference apart from the packaging is that the BR is visually inspected before packaging.
Click to expand...

jethunter said:
That's my understanding as well. The 450 and the BR4 are the same primer but the BR4 goes through extra inspection steps. Interchangeable.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Good to know.
I wonder what constitutes inspection -other than obviously looking for abnormalities to appearance..... inspect by depth and/or weight I wonder.
 
SND said:
I use both and some Fed-205M's. Many have found the CCI450's to be better than the BR4's but its really down to whatever you get the best load with. I've switched between all 3 a few times without changing load, it was close enough for me.
For a while some had issues with some batch of BR4's not lighting up, it's happen with BR2's and others too, but I've never had a primer of any kind not fire in my TR/FTR rifle.
Out of the 3, CCI 450's are what I'll buy more of when I need more small primers, and they're less $.
Click to expand...

That is very good know. My concern was that 450 are labeled as Magnums and I was of thinking they might be a bit more spicier than BR-4s.
 
Big bore dinosaur said:
I was forced " supply chain nightmare" to try Winchester in sub. For BR4 .
Pretty happy. Everything was really close. If anything not as hot
Click to expand...

When I started reloading it was for pistol only.
And I had absolutely no problems with Winchester at all -other than all the other guys at my club used them as well.
I eventually switched to CCI for pistol in order to be the only guy who used a silver primer to quickly identify my cases from those beside me.

When I transitioned from pistol to rifle, I kept going with CCI and used the 400s with good results.
Transitioning into precision rifle I went with BR-4 because I was "going with the flow... everyone else seemed to use them"

I know of one competitor that used Winchester for this past season and had many number of misfires... but I have my suspicion that its because he had primed cases that sat around for 2-3 years before he fully reloaded them. They probably were not stored properly.
 
The main difference between benchrest primers and standard is they put their best guys on the benchrest line. Primer cups are filled by workers smearing blocks of empty cups with wet paste and a small rubber squeege. Some are more consistEnt than the others.

CCI benchrest primers are stamped with a B, showing that the cups were dedicated to the benchrest line from the beginning.
 
Munkey1973 said:
I do not have any experience with these 450 primers and I might want to test these out before the snow hits the ground instead of waiting until spring.
I want to redevelop my load... while trying not use up too many components.

I am currently running 2nd Gen. Sierra 200 MKs in Lapua Palma with 43.0 Varget..... yields about 2,660 fps (and has been know to have an ES of 8 fps on 15 round strings).

Is it advisable to keep the existing load and just change the primer ?

Wondering if I need to adjust my powder charge to try and achieve 2,660 fps second again.
Click to expand...

- you should treat it as if it was a different lot of your current components
- if you found a speed that produces the results you want than you should be chasing that speed.
- start with the same components and substitute the 450's
- 450's are supposedly hotter, harder, and also more consistent ignition than BR4.
- Labradar is really helpful here
- Adjust the powder up or down by .03gr

Cheers
Trevor
 
Trevor60 said:
- you should treat it as if it was a different lot of your current components
- if you found a speed that produces the results you want than you should be chasing that speed.
- start with the same components and substitute the 450's
- 450's are supposedly hotter, harder, and also more consistent ignition than BR4.
- Labradar is really helpful here
- Adjust the powder up or down by .03gr

Cheers
Trevor
Click to expand...

Thanks Trevor... sounds like a reasonable plan of action.
I will just have to substitute Magneto Speed for Labradar to collect velocity data.
Others have suggested that 450s behave similar to BR-4s so hopefully I will rediscover 2,660 fps quickly without using too many components.
 
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On my fx120 i have sorted many CCI 450s
I’d say 90%+ of them fall between 3 weight categories, and I’m seperating them by 0.02gn increments.
5-10% are rejects and can be quite off.
Used for sighters, fireforming 0F brass, shooting oversized gongs or even guests ammo!
 
MartyK2500 said:
On my fx120 i have sorted many CCI 450s
I’d say 90%+ of them fall between 3 weight categories, and I’m seperating them by 0.02gn increments.
5-10% are rejects and can be quite off.
Used for sighters, fireforming 0F brass, shooting oversized gongs or even guests ammo!
Click to expand...

not a bad idea....Considering that I do 3 way bullet sorting, I might adopt your idea of primer sorting.

Saskatchewan winters are quite long!
 
Munkey1973 said:
Thanks Trevor... sounds like a reasonable plan of action.
I will just have to substitute Magneto Speed for Labradar to collect velocity data.
Others have suggested that 450s behave similar to BR-4s so hopefully I will rediscover 2,660 fps quickly without using too many components.
Click to expand...

similar yes, they compare 450's to br4 often and like others have said they are supposed to be identical except the sorting; however this hasn't translated on paper or in velocity, es, and sd. every lot is different

I use Fed 205m and testing two different lots gave me different results in ES and SD and accuracy at my preferred speed.

Cheers
Trevor
 
I only ever ran 450s... I would back off your current loads 0.6gr and work up in 0.1gr increments until you find your tune. 450's will put more energy into your kaboom so you will need to reduce the powder charge to match.

Be interesting to see how your results fair as things get cold. My groups went for a laughable poop when it got cold.... moved to LR primers and rifle was back to its happy self

Low hills just got snow... feels like my winter is going to be long as well.

Jerry
 
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