how to clean nasty milsurp barrels

ROCV

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Hello All,

I am struggling with a couple of my milsurps when it comes to cleaning the barrel.
I have tried a few solvents for carbon and copper and after multiple brushings and probably 100 patches even when it looks like it is finally clean.

1. I put about 3 through the barrel soaked in solvent
2. brush about 10 times
3. Run a soaked patch through and SOLID BLACK and the cycle starts all over again.

I have tried pretty much everything I have seen online but the electrical cleaning.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Help Please!!!!

RVV
 
You have a chemical deposit problem if your patches are still coming out black. In my fevered imaginations, I see cracks and depressions which are holding the fouling below the nominal bearing surface of the the bore.

In a similar situation with a wartime G43, I just kept goosing it with carbon solvents and mild Rem Clean abrasives, and a bronze bore brush. Alternately soaking the bore and scrubbing with a metal brush moved particles up to where the wet patch could carry them off.

Depending on the quality of the rest of the rifle, you could try a slightly slower cleaning method often used in hotrods. Coarse baking molasses has an acetic level known to go after oxidization and rust. It works slower than the little bottles of gunk from the gun store, but has similar results. I caution you to work on a strict schedule of counting days and don't forget what you've started! I converted a Ruger 10/22 barrel from rifled to smoothbore over a space of a few months! It is also messy stuff. My friend "Bob" laid the tracks for his Universal Carrier in a heavily lined wading pool. All was working until the pool sprung a leak, and he had 4" of frozen molasses all over the floor of his workshop!
 
Try electrolytic cleaning. The components are easily sourced. Will strip the bore down to bare metal. Doesn't mean it will be smooth and shiny, but the fouling will be gone.

Many (most?) military rifles will have never had metal fouling properly removed. A lot were used with cupro-nickel (silver coloured) jacketed bullets. Nickel fouling is particularly tenacious.
 
Had a SVT40 like that. Took forever, but it did finally come clean.

Both of these are excellent product.

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Soak barrel brush, wet barrel, let stand over night, run a few dry patches, repeat.
 
I bought two Lee Enfields that I was told hadn’t been shot in 20 years and I figured they hadn’t been cleaned in 30 years. I had never seen such heavily copper fouled bores I was over 3 hours before I finally got a clean patch. Butch ‘s black powder bore shine removed any carbon deposits then the green started. I soaked with Break free then scrubed I altered between the two barrels. I just kept at it until finally a clean patch came out. Working on two rifles one soaked while I scrubbed the other. A bit of work. You likely have a rifle that hasn’t been cleaned in awhile. I swear by Butch ‘a BP bore shine for cleaning black powder or carbon from smokeless loads. Any good solvent with a copper remover I found works. Break Free and Remington brand are the two I have used.
 
ive had good luck with putting a earplug to plug the end of the barrell,filling the barrell with solvent and letting sit overnight
 
One of worst I did as Father-in-laws rifle - he got it in 1960's - was quite up front that he had never, ever cleaned the bore. I think was 12 days - overnight soak with foaming Wipeout - scrub and patch in morning - refill bore for day long soak, repeat. Hold in mind that dirty crap on patch means that dirty crap no longer in the bore. I have now tried on at least half dozen - some failed - just too much pitting and corrosion evident with bore scope - but is multiple day thing - can even get clean patches - no discolouring - two days later back to dirty patches again. Also see blue on patch when stuff is removing copper - then no more blue for several days - then back to blue again - as if going through layers.

Do not overlook how effective just plain boiling hot water - maybe a bit of Dawn dishwashing detergent - rig up a funnel and bucket - set barrel vertical in vice - pour at least a litre of bubbling boiling hot water straight from tea kettle through that bore - often stuff come out or gets loosened - bore seems to dry almost instantly from the heat - resume scrubbing and patching with "real" cleaners...

Do not be tempted, as I was, to "shoot out" that crap by firing rounds - was advised on this site that is much more likely to simply pound that crap into the barrel walls, then to push it out the muzzle with a bullet.
 
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Sweets 7.62 maybe ??

Yes. But be careful if corking the bore and filling it with Sweet's to soak. Sweet's can attack the steel. Plug the bore, let it soak, pour it out, scrub. Repeat. I don't know that I would leave it soaking overnight.

Incidentally, if using a copper cutting cleaner, using a bronze brush isn't a good idea.

If a bore is nickeled, an ammoniated cleaner is the way to go.
 
Wipe-Out foaming bore cleanser. Shoot some down the bore and use paper towel to plug both ends. Let it sit over night, and see how purple the patches turn. Do NOT get any on the stock, it will remove the finish.
 
I am lazy, so let the chemicals do most of the work.

I scrub with a wet solvent patch a few times, and then leave the rifle muzzle down over night on a clean patch. The stain on the patch the next day tells me if the barrel is clean or needs another treatment. I scrub with a wet patch and a wet brush a couple times each, then leave it for a day.

"Muzzle down" is important. I store all my guns this way, so oil and solvent does not migrate back into the trigger and action bedding.

For this treatment you want a strong cleaner. I like Wipe-Out and Sweets. The after-shave cleaners like Hoppes are useless.

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I would say don't sweat it. You're dealing with decades of fouling. Your modern chemicals are so good that they keep reacting with old layers of fouling. Solutions is simple and pleasant - shoot, clean, repeat. Many times. It will get better but never will be perfect.
 
If you have a friend who works in a engine repair shop
Ask if you can put your barrels in the cleaning tank
 
OP, even if you do manage to get that fouling out of the bore, IMHO, it's not going to be the jewel you're hoping for.

Sweet's 7.62 solvent is about as aggressive as a commercial grade mixes come.

Taking your barrel to an engine repair shop, for a bath in their Caustic Soda tank, will definitely remove everything, including whatever finish is on it.

I have done the soaking in hot Caustic tanks on several occaisions. It works but whatever polishing is present before it goes in won't be there when it comes out.

If the Caustic tank works in the manner, the tanks I used does, it's basicly an electrolocis process and when pulled out, immediately immersed in hot/clean water, then blown off and usually washed with a fixing solvent after to slow down corrosion.

The metal will be absolutely bare and it will start showing rust within a few hours.

This rust is extremely difficult to get rid of, even bluing, a rusting process, won't stop it. The only thing that will stop the rust is OIL or a spray on coating to seal the metal from air/moisture.

Those tanks were made for cleaning Cast Steel Engine Blocks, Heads.

I used to go so far as to make up my own bore cleaner, specifically for Cupro Nickel fouling.

It had a very high concentration of Ammonia. It contained appx 25% concentrated ammonia which isn't available off the shelf and may require a special permit to purchase.

I had a source for the concentrated ammonia, which I mixed, according to a recipe used by military armorers back in the day.

I won't use it anymore, it's dangerous to humans, corrosive and if left in a bore for to long, it will damage the bore.

I exclusively use WIPE OUT.

Like Ganderite, I'm lazy and when I'm cleaning firearms, there are usually several at the same time.

Someone mentioned not to leave Wipe Out in the bore.

I contacted the people that manufacture it and was told they even suggest leaving it in the bore for storage, especially if you have an excellent bore without pits/frosting.

They suggest that it should be wiped out before shooting.

I was uncomfortable with that, so I did a take off barrel, with a bend, and pushed a loose patch soaked in Wipe Out through it and put it somewhere that I would come across it again, if I forgot why it was standing nose down in a plastic container. So, I put a tag on it explaining why it was there.

Eight months later, I wet another patch with Wipe out, ran it down the bore, followed by a clean, tight patch. It came out dark blue/green, after what I thought was a clean bore.

There was no visible damage to the bore and after a second pass with another clean, tight patch there were a few streaks of color. the third patch just had that faint gray color that indicates a bore that's been cleaned right down to the original metal.

NO RUST OR PITS, just a very shiny bore.

I commonly leave Wipe Out in a bore overnight. I never plug the bore and fill it as that's just a waste of a rather expensive product.

I don't purchase the "foaming" type because I use a lot of it and find that I can do three times as many barrels for the same cost with the fluid on a loose patch type.

I don't find the "Enhancer" helps at all.

If you use Sweet's 7.62 cleaner, which has appx 8% ammonia in solution, DON'T LEAVE IT IN YOUR BORE OVERNIGHT.

I don't like to leave it for more than fifteen minutes, if I know the bore is excellent or on a match rifle.

Sometimes, especially with a worn/pitted bore I will leave it for a couple of hours. That means it has to be wiped clean, with alcohol and dried, then sealed with a good oil or very light grease, then cleaned out again at the range before shooting.

Bores cleaned in this manner usually require a couple or even several fouling shots before they shoot accurately.

That means you have to find where that accuracy starts and where excess fouling causes it to break down.

Lots of folks never clean a bore all the way down to the original metal.

In many cases a quick pass with Wipe Out, when the accuracy goes awry, then left for 20 minutes is enough to get the rifle back to the sweet spot, after a fouling round.
 
Solvents that attack copper will also attack bore brushes with copper content, e.g. bronze, so the black coming out could be from the brush, not the bore.

Asking about favourite bore cleaning rituals is like asking about the best recipe for bullet lube or the best 30-06 loads - it's a religion to some and there will be many variations.

Your bore might never produce squeaky clean patches, so at some point you need to stop wearing it down through repeated cleaning and just shoot the darn thing.
 
Wipe-Out foaming bore cleanser. Shoot some down the bore and use paper towel to plug both ends. Let it sit over night, and see how purple the patches turn. Do NOT get any on the stock, it will remove the finish.

Glad you mentioned this. I bought a couple of cans of it. Yes, it will remove stock finish.

Don't even think about it unless you have the stock off the action!

As for how well it works on a filthy bore...does anyone know?
 
Glad you mentioned this. I bought a couple of cans of it. Yes, it will remove stock finish.

Don't even think about it unless you have the stock off the action!

As for how well it works on a filthy bore...does anyone know?


It works just fine on a filthy bore.

Depending on how filthy, will warrant the amount of times you have to repeat the process to get it to where you want it.

I don't use the foaming bore cleaner anymore. I use the Liquid Wipe Out on a loose patch to soak the fouling and let it sit for at least 20 minutes, before pushing it out. The liquid isn't messy, does more bores per container and if it does get onto a stock, if it's cleaned off quickly, it won't harm the finish on wood or composite stocks.

I also use a stainless steel brush to loosen fouling up, before applying Wipe Out.

After that, plastic brushes work fine.
 
I use it fairly often - is basically my "go to" stuff. Not sure what you mean by "filthy" - it seems to work very fine at lifting off copper, not too bad for carbon, but not so sure about rust. I had been doing deep soaks in penetrating oil for rust - sometimes putting a plug end at muzzle and soak for a few days with looney on chamber end of barrel to slow down evaporation. I do not really think super grungy ignored mil-surp bores get "clean" in a day - it takes days!!! I also wonder if they actually get truly "clean" - looking in a bore scope at a new Schultz and Larsen target barrel - I have never, ever got a milsurp barrel to look like that. No amount of cleaning or scrubbing with fill in pits from rust - but at least might get to "clean pits". Is an eye opener to take Wipe-Out's challenge - clean a bore the way that you think is clean - then use that stuff - actually shocking what comes out on those patches from a "cleaned" barrel.

I also suspect that long ignored bores get layers - so as if going through layers - sometimes copper, then carbon, then copper again - or perhaps the crap in different areas of the barrel let go sooner than others.

I have no knowing experience with bores with nickel plating from some milsurp ammo - will have to defer to others who have removed it.
 
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