Entry level plinker for my guests, looking at a Savage Mark II, should I be though?

[HelloKy]

Consider buying a bolt-action .22lr with irons. Everyone should learn how to shoot with irons imo.
If you really need to scope it get a low power 2-7x with AO or even just a fixed 4x. It will keep the package kinda light and usually "cheaper".
Personally, I think every cabinet should have at least one .22lr rifle. Better yet make it a lever action.....

I had to re-look at the FV that I linked too to notice that it didn't come with sights at all. I'm not hankering for a scope for it and wanted to teach on an iron sight platform, but I straight up just didn't notice that FV didn't have any sights

I do want a lever action of some kind, but noting's really screaming out at me just yet, still shopping around for that one

What id do:

-Get a good iron sight pellet rifle now (doesn't need a PAL)
these are fantastic to learn on. don't need hearing protection. wont bug your neighbours, dont need a big range set up, even very little kids (under supervision) can shoot. VERY cheap to run.

- Get a fun semi auto 22
I like the GSG but there are lots of other ones out there too
the more fun they are having the less scary they are (as thegazelle mentions)

Air rifles are a great idea. Some rifles, even non-PAL ones, may be too heavy for a younger shooter, or some break barrels would be harder for younger kids to operate.

CO2 air rifles are a possible idea for this, or CO2 air pistols, though the downside is the colder weather now affecting velocity and performance.

Thanks guys!

Unfortuantely according to local bylaws discharging anything even remotely resembling a firearm of any sort at anything other than a designated range is considered illegal, even non-pal. Whether Pellet or BB, CO2 or Spring, even airsoft is technically not allowed. I agree with everything you said, but the restrictions here treat it exactly the same as a, oh let's say an elephant rifle lol And even better, the ranges that DO allow pellet or bb guns around me, only have designated time slots of when that's an activity you're allowed to enjoy I'm shocked kids are allowed super soakers at this point.

Unless there's something I missed or don't know about my area, the hassle involved seems to be more or at least equal so to using a .22 anyways :\

It's likely still worth looking into though, for several reasons. The more it's discussed the more I just want to jump over to Cabelas right now and just pick something up and bare with the headaches

I like the break action air rifles for kids specifically because they can't use it without me
Every shot has to have an adults involvement.

For very young ones I use a stand (just scraps of 2x3 and plywood to make a little jig)

That's an interesting observation. Way back when I shot pellet guns in my friends back yard, I hated the single shot break action. To my young self back then it just felt so finnicky. It also could have just been a not very well made model, unfortunately my friend has no idea what it was or even where it came from originally lol So i've had a bit of a installed aversion to the idea of a break action air gun. But this point is something quite compelling!

It will be an excellent choice I have one and put over 5,000 rounds through it without a breakdown I clean it after I've shot a brick of ammo

That's great to hear! I've been watching a bunch of reviews on youtube and other sites about the Mark II and it seems like it's a crowd favorite, especially with those who have nostalgic memories of it having grown up with one. The B22 mentioned earlier was really compelling too but I've learned it seems to have a tendency to notch the crap out of the following round in the magazine

I have it in .17hm2. love it and looking at buying one in .22 now

You know, I've seen listing for .17HMR but for some reason didn't bother looking into the caliber's performance nor the cartiridge itself, for reasons that I'm not terribly sure. Probably just stuck on "I need a .22LR" mode. Looking at the .17HMR, that's a very cool round right there. Is there a reason why you want it in .22 now? I'd love to hear it

I wouldn't buy a gun just so other people can use it.

I'd put that money towards buying a better optic or better gun for myself.

As a tradesman I don't buy tools for other people to use, they can buy their own tools.

Ya I hear what you're saying. I've mentioned it in the original post that it's extremely likely that I'll also be using it a ton too. It's just the primary reasoning for the acquisition is to have something for my range guests to fire and get used to shooting with, and for my daughters to learn with too.

I have my eye on some specific hardware squarely for myself, for my own purposes and usage, so no worries there

 

[HelloKy]

I have that exact .22, well maybe a few of them. Definitely a good choice. As mentioned by someone else though, it's heavy for what it is (and kinda out of balance with the rubber stock). Good for shooting off a bag or something but maybe not a great choice for a younger shooter looking for squirrels. But a pretty solid choice for a new shooter learning how it's done at the range.

If you have the means to buy something for others to try out, go for it.

There are nicer rifles out there for sure. I've been giving my sons and daughters/nieces and nephews MKII as soon as they were big enough to shoot, I don't know if there is a better starter platform out there. Easy to operate, many different configurations.

Maybe consider the MKII FXP. Same rifle but with a sporter barrel, and comes with a 3-9 scope mounted on it. Less nose heavy for smaller shooters, and ready to go out of the box. I bought 4 of them last year to give my 4 nephews, they love them and their dads keep telling me they can't find enough ammo to keep the boys shooting. I have both the sporter and heavy barrel, can't really tell a difference. Tenda has them in stock for 369 plus tax, cabelas also shows them for 400.

The FXP was kind of my first choice but the few shops around me don't seem to have any in stock, ever, it seems. The part that concerns me now about the one I linked too, was it lacks any sights at all out of the box, and I didn't notice that. I'm sure I would have if I had gone to a store and held one of course.

I'm pretty convinced on the MKII at this stage, lots of positive feedback about it, I'll just need to keep my eye out for a model that fits our needs. Because the weight thing mentioned is a great point, I simply need to get to a shop and hold one in my hands to make that determination if it's going to be a concern for my daughters or not

The last bit about your nephews, that's REALLY cool man.

Ugh i'm getting antsy now hahaha

maybe I'll take a trip of Cabelas and grab an air rifle tonight or something. This waiting game sucks lol

 

[deadman]

Don't get hung up on the fact that it doesn't have irons on it and don't get hung up on not getting your hands on one to play with it before you buy.

I have rifles from a lot of different manufacturers, yes hands on is good. For the basic savage mk 2, yes the stock is horrible. Yes you might find a handful of metal shavings in the magwell or chamber(never seen it myself but I've heard of the horrors!) Yes the extractor may need some work.

But dollars for donuts you cannot beat it for a beginner rimfire rifle, especially if your primary reason is to teach rookies to shoot. It's not fancy, but it's pretty clear to me that savage built this rifle for everybody. It's easy to operate, and it's been in production for years. I would say it's the most user-friendly, safe, idiot-proof rimfire out there.

As I said, I bought an armful of them to give my nephews last year, I spent an hour dialing them all in and they all shoot exactly the same. Accurate enough to keep everybody entertained all day long. Maybe not those folks on this site that strive for more, but definitely good enough for casual shooters and beginners.

Cubs, Rascals, mk2, etc. So easy to use and my kids all grew up with them. And I'm not actually a Savage fanboy.

 

[Meroh]

Iron sights for new shooters; always. It is way easier for them to use and understand.

A Savage M II is good; but why not a Mark I? Bolt action, single shot for teaching new people safety and the basics of how guns work. They get to concentrate on their shooting, rather than how fast they can dump a mag, and how much noise they can make. Have a semi for them to shoot after they get the hang if the bolt action. I only ever owned 1 .22 semi, and I sold it a few years back. My .22 rifles are all bolt action; three single shots and Brno No 2. All good platforms to teach new people. I do have two .22 semi auto hand guns, and once the y have the hang of the rifles, they have little problem hitting paper with the pistols. A first time shooter who has some success hitting a target is more apt to continue in the sport than one who never hits the paper the first time out. Keep it simple at first.

 

[Meroh]

The FXP was kind of my first choice but the few shops around me don't seem to have any in stock, ever, it seems. The part that concerns me now about the one I linked too, was it lacks any sights at all out of the box, and I didn't notice that. I'm sure I would have if I had gone to a store and held one of course.

I'm pretty convinced on the MKII at this stage, lots of positive feedback about it, I'll just need to keep my eye out for a model that fits our needs. Because the weight thing mentioned is a great point, I simply need to get to a shop and hold one in my hands to make that determination if it's going to be a concern for my daughters or not

The last bit about your nephews, that's REALLY cool man.

Ugh i'm getting antsy now hahaha

maybe I'll take a trip of Cabelas and grab an air rifle tonight or something. This waiting game sucks lol

An air pistol can be a lot of fun too. I have both.

 

[Wendell]

I'm in the middle of waiting for my PAL to arrive in the mail so all I can do is arm-chair research and window shop at the moment in the meantime, hence what I feel to be a somewhat bizzare question.

Since several of my friends and family have learned that someone they know (me) can take them shooting, i've got a small queue of people who've never shot anything in their life lining up to go to the range with me in the future.

It's a cool problem to have, but my style rests in bigger calibers and shotguns, y'know things that might accidentally turn off some people whether it be recoil or loudness. So the obvious solution here is to get a .22 (gentle enough first shots, basic handling safety, that kind of thing), the question on my mind is: which one? Again it's not explicitly for me (though, let's be honest, of course I'll use it too) so I'm not looking to break the bank over it (and I know .22's can get quite pricy) and the Savage Mark II seems to fit that smaller price tag while seemingly offering a good platform. This one in particular: https://www.cabelas.ca/product/4990/savage-mark-ii-fv-heavy-barrel-bolt-action-rifle-w-accutrigger

My question I pose here is: why shouldn't it be apart of my collection, and/or is there a better option of equivilent or lesser price?

(preface: not trying to be provocative here)

In my experience, the 'accutrigger' is an added complication when it comes to having new people shoot your Savage. If it was just for you, or primarily for you, I wouldn't have that reservation, but whereas you say that it's intended primarily for "...a small queue of people who've never shot anything in their life...", I'd pass on anything complicated (such as an 'accutrigger').

 

[PPCLI-Jim]

I have a few .22LRs. My GSG15 I find is a little fiddly for new shooters. I find my friends like my RAR bolt action because they can see the difference on accuracy, once they understand trigger control . The 10/22 with a plastic pistol gripped stock, then gets them ready for the SKS. They don't get to use my high speed heavy barreled 10/22 as I like it.

 

[Buck1950]

In my experience, the 'accutrigger' is an added complication when it comes to having new people shoot your Savage. If it was just for you, or primarily for you, I wouldn't have that reservation, but whereas you say that it's intended primarily for "...a small queue of people who've never shot anything in their life...", I'd pass on anything complicated (such as an 'accutrigger').

I don't agree with "added complication" in that it's 'just there' and in many cases can be removed if one wishes to I have 3 rifles ( RAR, Sav B22, Sav A22) and modded the first 2 to under 2# trigger-pull. The A22 cannot be removed and is hard to 'defeat' (see my threads about that ) I've already made my case for the
B22 choice even tho it's about $100 more than the MKII.
The 'Safety blade' is 'noticeable' but certainly not an issue until you get down to 'fine accuracy issues' caused by addtl pull. BTW, I've been shooting for over 60 years so not prejudiced towards "New-fangled tech", but Accu is innocuous IMO. But I don't see how it's a particularly "Safety" improvement either. If you bump a trigger it's going to fire even with that 'Silver thing' there. That's what the "True Safety" button/lever/whatever is for.

 

[HelloKy]

Don't get hung up on the fact that it doesn't have irons on it and don't get hung up on not getting your hands on one to play with it before you buy.

I have rifles from a lot of different manufacturers, yes hands on is good. For the basic savage mk 2, yes the stock is horrible. Yes you might find a handful of metal shavings in the magwell or chamber(never seen it myself but I've heard of the horrors!) Yes the extractor may need some work.

But dollars for donuts you cannot beat it for a beginner rimfire rifle, especially if your primary reason is to teach rookies to shoot. It's not fancy, but it's pretty clear to me that savage built this rifle for everybody. It's easy to operate, and it's been in production for years. I would say it's the most user-friendly, safe, idiot-proof rimfire out there.

As I said, I bought an armful of them to give my nephews last year, I spent an hour dialing them all in and they all shoot exactly the same. Accurate enough to keep everybody entertained all day long. Maybe not those folks on this site that strive for more, but definitely good enough for casual shooters and beginners.

Cubs, Rascals, mk2, etc. So easy to use and my kids all grew up with them. And I'm not actually a Savage fanboy.

It's not that I got hung up on anything, it's just an observational error that came about because of simply scrolling through pictures instead of being in the shop itself, one that's so obvious in hindsight haha

Ya im pretty sold on the Savage at this point. If I can find a Mark II with some iron sights in stock somewhere that's what im going to go for. Thanks so much for your feedback

Iron sights for new shooters; always. It is way easier for them to use and understand.

A Savage M II is good; but why not a Mark I? Bolt action, single shot for teaching new people safety and the basics of how guns work. They get to concentrate on their shooting, rather than how fast they can dump a mag, and how much noise they can make. Have a semi for them to shoot after they get the hang if the bolt action. I only ever owned 1 .22 semi, and I sold it a few years back. My .22 rifles are all bolt action; three single shots and Brno No 2. All good platforms to teach new people. I do have two .22 semi auto hand guns, and once the y have the hang of the rifles, they have little problem hitting paper with the pistols. A first time shooter who has some success hitting a target is more apt to continue in the sport than one who never hits the paper the first time out. Keep it simple at first.

You're not wrong that removing the magazine from the equation makes things more simple and easier to approach. I simply just havent seen a Mark I for sale in the shops inventory I've been browsing so it just hasn't crossed my radar. That being said, I opted last night to pick up a single shot break action air rifle, to pretty much accomplish a similar point. Something unimposing and uncomplicated to get my friends and family familiar with holding something and get started practicing good discipline. Just had to go over the ol' finger off trigger rule with my wife earlier this morning lmao

All in all, I fully agree

An air pistol can be a lot of fun too. I have both.

I definitely intend to pick up an air pistol or two at some point in the near future, just for funsies

In my experience, the 'accutrigger' is an added complication when it comes to having new people shoot your Savage. If it was just for you, or primarily for you, I wouldn't have that reservation, but whereas you say that it's intended primarily for "...a small queue of people who've never shot anything in their life...", I'd pass on anything complicated (such as an 'accutrigger').

You know it's interesting, I've been hearing quite a positive response about the accutrigger, but I don't really care one way or the other. Kinda wish it weren't there, but it's not a deal breaker for me (at least not yet anyways lmao). I'll just have to play with it and see

I have a few .22LRs. My GSG15 I find is a little fiddly for new shooters. I find my friends like my RAR bolt action because they can see the difference on accuracy, once they understand trigger control . The 10/22 with a plastic pistol gripped stock, then gets them ready for the SKS. They don't get to use my high speed heavy barreled 10/22 as I like it.

I'll need to look into these RAR's. The positive buzz about them is something i've definitely noticed

I don't agree with "added complication" in that it's 'just there' and in many cases can be removed if one wishes to I have 3 rifles ( RAR, Sav B22, Sav A22) and modded the first 2 to under 2# trigger-pull. The A22 cannot be removed and is hard to 'defeat' (see my threads about that ) I've already made my case for the
B22 choice even tho it's about $100 more than the MKII.
The 'Safety blade' is 'noticeable' but certainly not an issue until you get down to 'fine accuracy issues' caused by addtl pull. BTW, I've been shooting for over 60 years so not prejudiced towards "New-fangled tech", but Accu is innocuous IMO. But I don't see how it's a particularly "Safety" improvement either. If you bump a trigger it's going to fire even with that 'Silver thing' there. That's what the "True Safety" button/lever/whatever is for.

Question, Did your B22 gouge the rounds in the magazine? It's the number 1 concern I've seen people point out about it. I like the form and furniture of it, there's a "cool" factor there too. And I'm not going to dismiss it at all, in fact it might find it's way into my collection sooner than later hehe But I do feel confident in the choice of a Mark II for the first .22 in the vault, but now more than ever I'm convinced it wont be the last

 

[Buck1950]

KY, My B22 doesn't have that problem at all. From what I've read and seen on YT this is an issue that was with 'Early' models. This came out in 2017 I believe. And I saw that the 'gouging' could be remedied by just filing a bit off the edge of the bolt, in case you would find an older one off the shelf somewhere. I was lucky in that I got mine (B22-FV) 'on Sale' at Flaherty for $340 +tx, right now they're $399.99 w/Free shipping. The "V" barrel is a bit thicker than 'standard' (No 'V') and that I believe contributes to it's accuracy. Still Waayy better than spending that amount of money on a Ruger that's much less accurate.
I stand by the advice for the B22 over the MKII due to the continuing problems with the MKII magazines reliability and wear. I've had NO probs with my B22.
BTW, I just got an A22 and don't recommend it because it has a terrible trigger, about 4-5# when adjusted as low as possible. I've been able to get mine down to ca. 2# or so, but doing so voids the warranty. Disgusting for a $400 rifle! And the accuracy isn't much to speak of either.
Good luck with your choice ;-P

 

[Wendell]

...You know it's interesting, I've been hearing quite a positive response about the accutrigger, but I don't really care one way or the other. Kinda wish it weren't there, but it's not a deal breaker for me (at least not yet anyways lmao). I'll just have to play with it and see...

I've got mixed feelings about the 'accutrigger'. Initially, I thought they were great; now, I don't. My sample size was limited to four rifles, so you might say that I don't know what I'm talking about, but... in my experience, with my own 'accutrigger' rifles, bought with my own money - a perfect trigger press usually works fine and usually achieves the desired result.

Sometimes, however, when my trigger press isn't perfect, the safety part of the 'accutrigger' trips; by that I mean that - when my trigger press isn't perfect - there might be a loud click (but no bang). That's me, with my own rifles, knowing that they have an 'accutrigger' and knowing that the 'accutrigger' requires a perfect trigger press (to avoid tripping the 'accutrigger'); even knowing that, it still happens to me. Rarely, but it still happens. When I take new people out with an 'accutrigger', it happens again and again; a loud click (but no bang); it's just one more thing that you have to explain (to them) and that they have to manage.

Given my experience, and given a choice, I'd pass on the 'accutrigger'.

 

[jmichelin84]

The little rascal bolt action, maybe a cooey

 

[Hitzy]

Scorpio EM322A, can be had for $170 on sale, based on an Austrian target action, basically a Norinco EM322 made today, pretty decent guns, accurate, well made, with irons and standard dovetail.
https://www.gotenda.com/product/scorpio-em332a-22lr-bolt-action/

 

[Buck1950]

Admittedly, with my Accu's I've 'fiddled' them a bit, even the A22 (tho that's a work in progress), but I've not had those lock-ups with my Savage B22 and Ruger American .223 - both bolt actions. Before I modded them neither of these had that problem either, and I sent quite a few rounds down range before the mods. And the A22 Accu system interacts with the sear-reset during 'normal' firing, so is difficult to circumvent. Occasionally it does still lock-up about 5% of the time (I fired ca 100 rounds last Sat with only a few 'locks'-didn't really count how many). The 'locks' occur after firing, not as I press the trigger, so I believe not related to your issue.

 

[ALBERTA BOY]

The lake field mark ii is a good firearm but the savage plant in Ontario has terrible QC. Some are amazing and some leave you scratching your head on how it ever left the factory. Caveat emptor.

The good ones are really good.

I haven’t seen a bad cz457 yet though.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Marlin 795 if you can find one shoots above it's price point.

 

[Buck1950]

The lake field mark ii is a good firearm but the savage plant in Ontario has terrible QC. Some are amazing and some leave you scratching your head on how it ever left the factory. Caveat emptor.

The good ones are really good.

I haven’t seen a bad cz457 yet though.

Good Point there AB. Both my B22 and A22 have poor-looking barrels per Teslong. Looks like RR tracks inside (chattering button) and looong scratches too, like a piece of crap was dragged by the button !! Both were bought 'Mail-order' and shoot OK, but might shoot better if was better rifling. Not worth messing with exchange/returns.
If I were buying anything I'd take my Scope and laptop to check the innards. 5-minutes will tell the story.

 

[ALBERTA BOY]

I’m referring to more serious and obvious problems than that but good point. Things like the front sight handing off the one side of the barrel and half the dovetail showing. The sight needed to be filed to go in any further so instead of doing that they just shipped it. Completely unusable with the iron sights.

Fixed now but not everyone has a barrel vice, brass punch, and file at home. It says something about the people who thought that was ok to ship. That was purchased only 6 months ago (savage 64)

 

[.22LRGUY]

First-off, the rifle in that link is very decent...and the price is excellent. It would serve you well I'm sure. The "V" designation means it's a heavy barrel and what you'll find shooting it is that it's on the heavy side, and muzzle-heavy from a balance POV. Varmint-Barrelled guns generally are muzzle-heavy, even when they have wood/laminate stocks. The stock on the MK II is quite light, which makes that more pronounced. What does that mean?

Means you won't enjoy shooting it off-hand at all, your kids likely won't even be able to. You'll find it a better gun to shoot from a rest, be it a fancy one...bags on a bench, bipod, etc. For the record, I mostly shoot heavy-barrelled rifles.

The MK II FV/22LR in the link you shared is a great price for sure, I actually have the same model of rifle listed for sale myself, and I paid $489 for it. lol Granted, it's in 17M2=far less common rifle to find, likely far FAR fewer made if my information is correct. Someone else mentioned having one in 17M2 and the OP replied referencing 17HMR. Definitely different than 17M2. Here is a photo that illustrates the difference. 17HMR is a 22WMR case necked-down to 17. 17M2 is a 22LR case necked-down to .17. They're all pretty fun.

There is a standard-weight-barrel, Savage 22LR (an older one) in the EE right now, iron sights, good price, etc. Don't know the seller, but maybe something like might be worth considering?

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2211121-Savage-Lakefield-Mk-2

22LR is a superb choice for getting new shooters some experience, but it's also an excellent platform for practice yourself. Some of us even prefer it over all other calibers. I think a bolt action IS the best action if you have to choose one, and I prefer it over all others. 22LR ammo is available from very quiet/slow offerings all the way up to really high velocity stuff. If you're relatively new to rimfires, it's critical to understand that no rifle shoots all 22 ammo types well. In fact, usually the other way around=it shoots very few, well. Buy a box of everything you can find locally, and test it out!

As Gazelle suggested, reactive targets are a great way of keeping new shooters engaged. (unless they're just fascinated with guns?) Key is to have that stuff ready in the range bag before you leave the house. Inflated balloons, sitting clay pigeons, large frozen carrots (shoot with hollow-points), etc. All good fun.

 

[gandalfe]

My guests would be shooting an old single shot, that they have to learn how to shoot properly.Nobody ever spoiled me with fine firearms, as a guest.