Any outfitter owners here?

[Brian46]

So, the bulk of you would walk away from that kind of investment on principle? Yeah.... right. Reminds me of all the indignant anti-vaxxers, who swore they would never be coerced into getting a vaccine they didn't want... not many of them sacrificed a single cheque before they suffered the jab.

You know, it is easy to act the critic when looking from the outside in, but when you are standing in that guys shoes, your perspective changes pretty radically.

Nobody is saying he should have walked away with nothing. He sold the area.

It is the conscious choice after the fact to take on clients who want to be flown around and shown a good time who only want to destroy the things you enjoy.

It is not like there is low demand for helicopters or licenced pilots from industry and private individuals who's values don't clash with your own.

I can only surmise that the real passion was money, not actual hunting, guiding, etc. I have come across many like this over the years that constantly flop around as to who they are and what they really support depending on who is paying their bills at the time

 

[savage 110L]

Man who gives a crap that an outfitter sold their territory. No more wealthy Americans or Europeans killing game in one part of BC. Would be a great opportunity for residents to hunt without competition.

 

[Brian46]

Man who gives a crap that an outfitter sold their territory.

that is not what is being discussed at all.

It is servicing the anti gun, anti hunting, eco warrior and politicians backing them after the fact.

There is lots of work for helicopter/pilots in industry and private recreation more in line with someone who enjoys, hunting, fishing and preserving that way of life for future generations.

 

[Ardent]

Would be interested to hear from Angus on what Mr Singh has to offer someone like him. I believe Mr Singh wants to tax the crap out of the tax bracket that Angus lives in and the industry he works in.

I just had a good laugh thanks to the forum and a friend here who let me know about all the excitement that’s been afoot! Now, there are several capacities I’ve learned to embrace as an adult. Still learning, really, it’s a work in progress. One of the foremost is the patience to speak with and listen to somebody you don’t agree with, and be professional in the presence of contrary points of view. I was an opinionated bastard as a younger man just ask Hoyt how we met digitally so this is an ongoing evolution.

Jagmeet, is indeed a solid individual. Politically we don’t see eye to eye, and to his credit he’s the only politician I’ve been able to have a straight up conversation with and who listened. For hours too not simply passing niceties, as I flew him most of a day and he rode up front. I like to think those conversations are important, as I told him about ways of life and interests he wasn’t familiar with. He told me about legal and political process I’d never heard about. We left still not being of the same opinions politically, but he was remarkably genuine with the “gloves off” and I left the day with sincere respect for the individual. Whether misguided in our view, he’s working hard to do what he believes in, and is able to listen to contrary views.

In the course of work I’ve met a curious number of politicians and other un-noteworthy minor celebrities. Professionally, I feel lucky to be able to have quite interesting conversations with many of them, including Harper once upon a time, he was the first I met. None listened more than Jagmeet, or were more sincere. Will I vote for him? No, but I respect the man and the country we live in that let’s us have these conversations.

As for outfitting, yep I did a lot of hard miles in it. I’d do it all again, but it’s no secret I don’t enjoy killing for profit anymore. I want to get back to hunting for the purity it used to offer my family, not for the money. Do anything for work, and it changes it, many hunters with principles wouldn’t appreciate the commercial scene of hunting you enter as you inevitably become more successful. The big US money pays the bills and let’s you breath out for the first time after putting everything you own on the line to secure the loans for your territory and equipment. It also forever changes hunting as you enter the pure trophy aspect of the sport.

There are those here, who haven’t done the job or taken the risks personal and financial, who would have you believe they’d give up their house as hunts closed and quotas dropped for the right of the extremely wealthy to hunt where residents still can. At the same time I was facing a reckoning on what I believed was a respectable hunt the government closed first the Grizzly hunt, then reduced the other tags, I was made an offer by a conservation organization many here dislike. Their mandate, like Jagmeet’s disagrees with mine in many ways. But we’re able to have a frank conversation, and at the core their goal is to see wilderness preserved. At the core, that’s my goal as well. And they have a lot more pull than I do to stop the logging, and mining interests I tried to but was unable as a lone individual tenure holder.

In the end I made the choice that protects my family, and I’m not for a moment in my life ungrateful for having the freedom to. And I’d do it all again, from day 1 up. There’s a joy and freedom in that you can’t express on a forum post. That stems from being able to speak your mind, and not follow one path alone simply because others say that’s how it is. Those that disagree with me, I won’t try to tell them they’re wrong. All I’d ask is we can have the same respectful conversation I did with Jagmeet. If they lack that capacity, just as they don’t have the time for me and I don’t have the time for them.

Cheers guys and stay well,

Angus

 

[Paul15]

This thread escalated quicker than normal!

 

[Ardent]

So I was right after all...... I always knew there was something off about Angus...... and that right there proves that my gut instincts were bang on the day i met him at the kamloops gun show way back in 2008 or 09

what a loser.

Never been to the Kamloops gun show, not sure who you met there and got a bad impression of but hope he did a good impression.

 

[Suther]

Good on you for trying to educate him on things he's not familiar with. I hope you find success and happiness in whatever life brings you next.

And I hope you keep posting pictures here! You get to play in places most people could only dream of.

 

[hoytcanon]

Never been to the Kamloops gun show, not sure who you met there and got a bad impression of but hope he did a good impression.

I missed that post because I have the knob on ignore... but the tone is of course, bang on and consistent.

 

[Ardent]

Nobody is saying he should have walked away with nothing. He sold the area.

It is the conscious choice after the fact to take on clients who want to be flown around and shown a good time who only want to destroy the things you enjoy.

It is not like there is low demand for helicopters or licenced pilots from industry and private individuals who's values don't clash with your own.

I can only surmise that the real passion was money, not actual hunting, guiding, etc. I have come across many like this over the years that constantly flop around as to who they are and what they really support depending on who is paying their bills at the time

You couldn’t be more wrong, or trying harder to read a book from squinting hard at the cover. This said, I’d have a beer with you and tell you about what’s in the book. That’s not what the interment is for.

I missed that post because I have the knob on ignore... but the tone is of course, bang on and consistent.

Appreciated the kind words my friend, you can certainly tell who knows you in a thread like this.

 

[huntaholic]

WTF. I have worked in the field of conservation as a long time director,vp and president,past president of the WSSBC for well over 20 years. I have seen first hand what this type of rhetoric and attack has done to our opportunities and animal populations here in BC. I for one have no time for it. People need to grow up, high school for most of us was a long time ago. Ever wonder why we can't as hunters and gun owners here in Canada ever get a leg up. This kinda bull#### would be why. We just can't seem to work together. I won't go farther down this rabbit hole as most of the posters here obviously don't have the wavelength or character needed to have an intelligent conversation on any of this and are just happy to throw others under the bus. Character and integrity are 2 words that I would use to describe my friend Angus.

We are our own worst enemy.

 

[Runningfool]

As a casual observer of this thread I have to say Angus’ reply seems measured, balanced, intelligent, and well thought out. But the picture was presented as some sort of promotion or endorsement - that’s the part that doesn’t quite square with we don’t see eye to eye but he was a great listener. I have close friends who have very different political views than mine but as much as I appreciate and respect them, I don’t exactly go about promoting them. I’m not a member of the forum the picture was originally posted to so I’m left guessing as to what the intention was for posting the picture in the first place. Perhaps Angus you can provide some context?

 

[Ardent]

Thanks Mike, means an awful lot, look forward to dropping outta the sky into the ranch and getting back after it with ya. Greg and Phil, I look forward to a hot cuppa coffee in a wet or cold place, and Greg in your case giant sized towels !

And oldspice, this clearly took a turn unintended, let me know if you have any questions about outfitting as an owner-operator. Flew the plane, drove the boats, explored & survived, did the trade shows. There’s a lot of great in it, and if you can get in without huge overhead like BC largely takes, and can keep it small you could have a really rewarding way of life. And maybe even pay for it too.

First thought to share on outfitting is, it’s a business though few of us get in fully realizing that even though we think we do. If you’re aiming to do it full time, 90% of your time spent on outfitting through the course of a full year ain’t the stuff people daydream about. If you’re able to run small and at a low cost of entry, you can do more of the lifestyle aspects everyone envisions, but you may struggle to make a full living at it.

I got into it because it wrapped everything I loved into one, aviation and bush flying, boating (as we’re on the coast and I grew up doing it), hunting, fishing, and more than anything exploring utterly remote areas with something to chase. The early years, and the hunts with friends at modest rates were by far the best and some of the best experiences of my life. As you inevitably grow and build, you end up getting the dentists and lawyers, and the higher rates. The guys themselves, nothing wrong with them, but they’re not the field crafty folks you started with or in the same realm of life as you when around the campfire, Financially, you have to go to that crowd in BC to make a living at it.

It’s a different feel to one of your favourite pursuits at that point, like transitioning from fishing for pleasure to commerial fishing. There are a lot of forks in the road though, depending where you are and what you would be hunting. There are at least two other outfitters in this thread who depending on your location will know far more specifically the nuances of what you aim to do. My way, wa to set out on a grand adventure. That was a raging success I’m happy to report.

 

[Ardent]

As a casual observer of this thread I have to say Angus’ reply seems measured, balanced, intelligent, and well thought out. But the picture was presented as some sort of promotion or endorsement - that’s the part that doesn’t quite square with we don’t see eye to eye but he was a great listener. I have close friends who have very different political views than mine but as much as I appreciate and respect them, I don’t exactly go about promoting them. I’m not a member of the forum the picture was originally posted to so I’m left guessing as to what the intention was for posting the picture in the first place. Perhaps Angus you can provide some context?

Appreciate your candour, I think what you’re seeing as a promotion makes the presumption I’m anyone to promote him. I’m just a pilot and guide, and got to fly an individual who genuinely surprised me with his open-mindedness and character. I’m definitely prone to judging though I try not to, and admittedly I went in judging him and had made many a joke at his expense in the past. He was the kind of guy you can tell that to and he’ll shoot back. As I said in the caption to my picture, I learned things. And found him to be a solid individual.

That’s utterly all there is to it, and there’s nothing to feel bad about in saying it. I’d feel bad if I couldn’t say it, and yet I still don’t speak my mind without trepidation. But I’m learning to slowly, we are allowed to respect people we don’t agree with politically. I thought hard about posting the picture, because I had made fun of the guy and been far from his biggest fan. But like I said, I learned things. And it’s as simple as that. Being able to say that in this forum makes me feel even better, and thanks for the message there.

 

[Runningfool]

I appreciate the explanation even though you certainly don’t owe one to me or anyone else here. I wasn’t even certain the caption was yours; you never really know these days. Anyhow, I do enjoy people being free to say what they want in this forum, both your supporters and detractors. Being respectful of people you may not agree with seems a bit out of fashion these days. But it’s something worth cultivating IMO.

 

[Brian46]

You couldn’t be more wrong, or trying harder to read a book from squinting hard at the cover. This said, I’d have a beer with you and tell you about what’s in the book. That’s not what the interment is for.

I am wrong that helicopters/pilots have no gainful employment outside of flying around eco warriors and the politicians that support them in putting an end to hunting and gun ownership?

Pilots and helicopters are in high demand, no shortage of work, you can easily pick and choose who you fly around and make a very comfortable living.

In the end, a private pilot gets to choose his own path. I personally don't see any reason to help those that are only going to take away from you if they ever get their way.

 

[bearkilr]

Thanks Mike, means an awful lot, look forward to dropping outta the sky into the ranch and getting back after it with ya. Greg and Phil, I look forward to a hot cuppa coffee in a wet or cold place, and Greg in your case giant sized towels !

And oldspice, this clearly took a turn unintended, let me know if you have any questions about outfitting as an owner-operator. Flew the plane, drove the boats, explored & survived, did the trade shows. There’s a lot of great in it, and if you can get in without huge overhead like BC largely takes, and can keep it small you could have a really rewarding way of life. And maybe even pay for it too.

First thought to share on outfitting is, it’s a business though few of us get in fully realizing that even though we think we do. If you’re aiming to do it full time, 90% of your time spent on outfitting through the course of a full year ain’t the stuff people daydream about. If you’re able to run small and at a low cost of entry, you can do more of the lifestyle aspects everyone envisions, but you may struggle to make a full living at it.

I got into it because it wrapped everything I loved into one, aviation and bush flying, boating (as we’re on the coast and I grew up doing it), hunting, fishing, and more than anything exploring utterly remote areas with something to chase. The early years, and the hunts with friends at modest rates were by far the best and some of the best experiences of my life. As you inevitably grow and build, you end up getting the dentists and lawyers, and the higher rates. The guys themselves, nothing wrong with them, but they’re not the field crafty folks you started with or in the same realm of life as you when around the campfire, Financially, you have to go to that crowd in BC to make a living at it.

It’s a different feel to one of your favourite pursuits at that point, like transitioning from fishing for pleasure to commerial fishing. There are a lot of forks in the road though, depending where you are and what you would be hunting. There are at least two other outfitters in this thread who depending on your location will know far more specifically the nuances of what you aim to do. My way, wa to set out on a grand adventure. That was a raging success I’m happy to report.

Spoken like someone who's been in the industry for decades,which you haven't. You dipped your toes and decided it wasn't for you, nothing wrong with that, but there are quite a few of us who enjoy the lifestyle and still don't see it as exploiting wildlife. It depends on how you want to portray yourself, it's all about image. Believe it or not, there are quite a few successful outfitters around that don't have thousands of instagram followers and videos, they rely on word of mouth from previous hunters, that's still the best advertising. Quite frankly, you seem like the type that bores of endeavours and needs to find something new to keep you going. That's fine, but there's no need to try and shed a negative light on something you're no longer involved in.

 

[Ardent]

And respectfully, spoken like somebody who’s doing it on the low overhead, straightforward and likely one or two species route I allude to above away from the mountains. From our previous discussions you have a pretty sharp focus, bait black bears, and don’t need to fly planes in the mountains, or boats or have multiple guides. You can probably even operate in several hundred or thousand acres, rather than a million plus acres that you have to make payments on.

As I said above, that could likely prove rewarding and a lifestyle and I have a good deal of respect for it. It’s the way I’d do it from what I’ve learned. As for the internet and followers, that’s simply business, and it works, we were mighty busy. We also had the multiple repeat clients and the word of mouth. But in the end, to make the payments on a BC outfit, you have to grow. Our hunts and operation weren’t black bears unfortunately on costs. We did and that is when I fell out of love with it, the way you operate would likely be very rewarding. As for dipping our toes, again you can tell who knows you.

 

[Ardent]

I am wrong that helicopters/pilots have no gainful employment outside of flying around eco warriors and the politicians that support them in putting an end to hunting and gun ownership?

Pilots and helicopters are in high demand, no shortage of work, you can easily pick and choose who you fly around and make a very comfortable living.

In the end, a private pilot gets to choose his own path. I personally don't see any reason to help those that are only going to take away from you if they ever get their way.

Yes, you are, you usually don’t even know who you’re flying until they walk down the ramp on jobs like that, and that’s just how Jagmeet went. But that’s besides the point, if you shut yourself out of conversations with those you disagree with nothing will ever change by excluding yourself. I’m very grateful to be able to have a conversation like that.

How long have you been a commercial helicopter pilot?

 

[DGY]

I just had a good laugh thanks to the forum and a friend here who let me know about all the excitement that’s been afoot! Now, there are several capacities I’ve learned to embrace as an adult. Still learning, really, it’s a work in progress. One of the foremost is the patience to speak with and listen to somebody you don’t agree with, and be professional in the presence of contrary points of view. I was an opinionated bastard as a younger man just ask Hoyt how we met digitally so this is an ongoing evolution.

Jagmeet, is indeed a solid individual. Politically we don’t see eye to eye, and to his credit he’s the only politician I’ve been able to have a straight up conversation with and who listened. For hours too not simply passing niceties, as I flew him most of a day and he rode up front. I like to think those conversations are important, as I told him about ways of life and interests he wasn’t familiar with. He told me about legal and political process I’d never heard about. We left still not being of the same opinions politically, but he was remarkably genuine with the “gloves off” and I left the day with sincere respect for the individual. Whether misguided in our view, he’s working hard to do what he believes in, and is able to listen to contrary views.

In the course of work I’ve met a curious number of politicians and other un-noteworthy minor celebrities. Professionally, I feel lucky to be able to have quite interesting conversations with many of them, including Harper once upon a time, he was the first I met. None listened more than Jagmeet, or were more sincere. Will I vote for him? No, but I respect the man and the country we live in that let’s us have these conversations.

As for outfitting, yep I did a lot of hard miles in it. I’d do it all again, but it’s no secret I don’t enjoy killing for profit anymore. I want to get back to hunting for the purity it used to offer my family, not for the money. Do anything for work, and it changes it, many hunters with principles wouldn’t appreciate the commercial scene of hunting you enter as you inevitably become more successful. The big US money pays the bills and let’s you breath out for the first time after putting everything you own on the line to secure the loans for your territory and equipment. It also forever changes hunting as you enter the pure trophy aspect of the sport.

There are those here, who haven’t done the job or taken the risks personal and financial, who would have you believe they’d give up their house as hunts closed and quotas dropped for the right of the extremely wealthy to hunt where residents still can. At the same time I was facing a reckoning on what I believed was a respectable hunt the government closed first the Grizzly hunt, then reduced the other tags, I was made an offer by a conservation organization many here dislike. Their mandate, like Jagmeet’s disagrees with mine in many ways. But we’re able to have a frank conversation, and at the core their goal is to see wilderness preserved. At the core, that’s my goal as well. And they have a lot more pull than I do to stop the logging, and mining interests I tried to but was unable as a lone individual tenure holder.

In the end I made the choice that protects my family, and I’m not for a moment in my life ungrateful for having the freedom to. And I’d do it all again, from day 1 up. There’s a joy and freedom in that you can’t express on a forum post. That stems from being able to speak your mind, and not follow one path alone simply because others say that’s how it is. Those that disagree with me, I won’t try to tell them they’re wrong. All I’d ask is we can have the same respectful conversation I did with Jagmeet. If they lack that capacity, just as they don’t have the time for me and I don’t have the time for them.

Cheers guys and stay well,

Angus

I don’t know you, I probably don’t agree on your political choice(I don’t agree with most on that anyway) but after following this thread and now reading this, I have respect for the dialog and the person you are exposing in the above reply!!
Respect!

 

[Brian46]

Yes, you are, you usually don’t even know who you’re flying until they walk down the ramp on jobs like that, and that’s just how Jagmeet went. But that’s besides the point, if you shut yourself out of conversations with those you disagree with nothing will ever change by excluding yourself. I’m very grateful to be able to have a conversation like that.

How long have you been a commercial helicopter pilot?

Close friend of mine has been a pilot for years and owns his own helicopter and plane. He chooses what jobs he wants to do and has done very well for himself. Let's not pretend pilots are work starved, we are talking BC and Alberta work, not international flights that have been subject to travel bans

As for pretending to not know you were being hired to fly the leader of the NDP around until you got to your helicopter.......

If shutting yourself out of working for someone means you don't get a conversation, then so be it. If you have to cater to someone to have a discussion, that is called pay for play.

Imagine if a contractor had to build a house for Jagmeet to have have a discussion or a car salesman has to sell him a car, etc, etc.