FTR on SMLEs

You may also want to check out cost/availability of .303 ammo in your area if you want to shoot it. Not much around and expensive.......
 
Sold and restored a number of SMLEs in the last while, Matching parts should be bolt, receiver, barrel, and nose cap. FTR will still match though parts may be lined out and renumbered (I currently have 12 Dewats that show this). It's not difficult to get a general SMLE in decent shooter condition on the EE for 850-900$, they pop up fairly often. At 1400$, unless its a mint, all matching with early features or a rare date, it would have to be a beautiful example. One other key point to check, especially if you plan to shoot it, is the stocking up and draws area. most guys won't disassemble it down enough to see the fore end, or worse, do it wrong by taking the butt off first, but you can sometimes see if the wood is damaged or missing from the inside of the mag well or down through the opening where the trigger seer is. If this area is damaged, the gun will never shoot well and run the risk of cracking the fore end. I have a 1917 dated canadian marked example that had this problem, and it was a royal pain to fix.
 
Thank you Torandir for all this information! Still waiting on photos from the seller. He did say the FTR was done during WWI (1917-1918) would that be possible? All my research shows the FTR stamping happened between the 1940s-1950s?
 
To my knowledge, they could have been done at any time, however FTR means factory thorough repair. so it would have went back and been essentially set up as a brand new rifle. Generally as far as I've seen all post war, mostly seen on ww2 examples done post ww2. easy way to tell is to check the date on the barrel shank, it will be marked with the last 2 digits of the year it was made/installed (IE '36) would be a 1936 barrel. I have seen numerous SMLE's that are ww1 dated sockets, but have ww2 or post war dated barrels. One nice thing with FTR rifles, is if they were done post ww2, they are generally in nicer condition and make better shooters
 
Thank you Torandir, duly noted! Will post photos here when I receive them! Really looking forward for a WWI era SMLE to further my collection.
 
Lee Enfields are the one type of Milsurp I really hate buying as there is so much that can be wrong with them and due to there popularity and availability in Canada all sort of people messed with them.

The number one part I care about matching on a No 1 Mk 3* is the nosecap to receiver. If it isn’t I won’t touch it as the odds of it being a restored sporter are too high to me. After that other matching parts are preferred but I am willing to accept them mismatched. Avoiding restorations/refinishing is a huge one for me.

Best of luck OP, a lot can be wrong with them and it can be hard to find a honest example.
 
I agree. My no1 mk3 was cracked at the rear. Luckily it cleaned well amd epoxied back together well. But its matching, the bedding is tight and it shoots well. The no4 was bought from a local restorer and it sports its original wood and tight bedding too. The no5...draws were totally gone..mush.


I wouldn't even go near a restored sporter unless its from him.
 
Eaglelord17, thank you for the information. This one the seller didn't mention anything about the nose cap, and it wasn't on his matching list too so it's safe to assume it doesn't match the said rifle.

Mulletard, thank you, would avoid a restored sporter from now on.

I'm getting more skeptical as time goes by. The seller is really not telling me much even after I inquired. And still no additional photos as of right now. Looks like a pass for me. Thank you all for the help, think I might stay away from SMLEs from now on.
 
Generally speaking if the nose cap isn’t listed it isn’t matching. About 7-8 years ago when restoring Enfields was the rage to be able to get a cheap ‘full wood’ example (rifles were 100-200$, stocks were about 50-200$) a rifle with all matching parts (or all matching parts that were there) was the desired example to restore. Most who did the ‘restoring’ were just slapping wood on the rifle and calling it done. Obviously not the right way to do things but it was what most did.

Louthepou on here (hope I wrote his name right) restored many correctly and did a amazing job by all accounts.

If the seller is asking top price and can’t prove its a premium example, I would move on. Plenty of fish in the sea.
 
GoodDoomguy said:
Eaglelord17, thank you for the information. This one the seller didn't mention anything about the nose cap, and it wasn't on his matching list too so it's safe to assume it doesn't match the said rifle.

Mulletard, thank you, would avoid a restored sporter from now on.

I'm getting more skeptical as time goes by. The seller is really not telling me much even after I inquired. And still no additional photos as of right now. Looks like a pass for me. Thank you all for the help, think I might stay away from SMLEs from now on.
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Just be patient. Despite looking hard it may be difficult task to find a good one. They are out there, but you really need to do your homework to avoid buying something undesirable. Many sellers may pretend not to know much or be slow to answer your detailed questions, so be ready to always walk away if you are not 100% sure.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Generally speaking if the nose cap isn’t listed it isn’t matching. About 7-8 years ago when restoring Enfields was the rage to be able to get a cheap ‘full wood’ example (rifles were 100-200$, stocks were about 50-200$) a rifle with all matching parts (or all matching parts that were there) was the desired example to restore. Most who did the ‘restoring’ were just slapping wood on the rifle and calling it done. Obviously not the right way to do things but it was what most did.

Louthepou on here (hope I wrote his name right) restored many correctly and did a amazing job by all accounts.

If the seller is asking top price and can’t prove its a premium example, I would move on. Plenty of fish in the sea.
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I really hate to disagree with this because most of it is true.

However, after WWI, every nation involved and even some that weren't picked up these rifles off the battlefields, from left over storage depots, surplus sales, you name it.

The rifles came from different manufacturers from UK/AUSTRALIA/INDIA

The Brits made sure that all of these rifles, other than the one offs from the Khyber, had parts that could be interchanged, with little or no hand fitting.

When other nations, such as Turkey/Italy/Austria/Holland and many others adopted these rifles for first line or secondary use they often stripped unrepairable rifles for useable parts and didn't bother to sort them out by manufacturer or nationality.

The Australians lost thousands of Lithgow produced rifles at Galipoli and the Turks put those rifles into service. Even converted some of them to 8x57 Frankenmausers.

Are the rifles that were FTRed or repaired by those nations uncollectable or incorrect??? Not IMHO.

I've had unmolested, completely original factory No1 rifles dating from the mid 1890s to new made Indian rifles, which I believe are still being made/issued to this very day.

They're fantastic firearms and a joy to handle.

There are very few of these rifles that haven't seen some sort of repairs from minor bits to being stripped down to their individual components, compeletely refinished, all necessary parts replaced.

IMHO 99% of the rifles out there have gone through some sort of repair process and in most instances, the replacement or repaired parts did not come from the same manufacturers.

Lots of the parts on these rifles were not made up by the company stamped on the butt socket. The manufacture of those parts were contracted to small producers of such things.

It's sort of like demanding that a Garand M1 have all matching parts from the same manufacturer. It happened but wasn't the norm.
 
And, I would buy a resto from lou. There is a few people id buy from. But there has been some bad looking de sportered ones on here for a premium from others.

Yeah it depends really. An ftr with some un matching parts doesn't bug me. But a desportered one I want to handle and see...unless its from a few guys that I trust.

I bought my no4 from a guy in regina where I live that restores them. (I have heard some complaints about things) but mine is bedded tight and shoots really well with its original wood. Easy buy, I could handle it and see it. I bought a no4 mk2 on here that was pretty warped....luckily I got my money back on it.
 
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- top dollar
- grainy pics
- reluctant to send better pics
- "I know what I've got"
- "of course it is [whatever you say you want it to be]

That's more than enough to make me nervous.

I bet the next step is to shame you (the buyer) for asking so many questions and not blindly trusting him (the seller).

Just my observation but FTR on a SMLE usually can be roughly dated from dates stamped or parts used that indicate WW2 or later.
 
bearhunter said:
I really hate to disagree with this because most of it is true.

However, after WWI, every nation involved and even some that weren't picked up these rifles off the battlefields, from left over storage depots, surplus sales, you name it.

The rifles came from different manufacturers from UK/AUSTRALIA/INDIA

The Brits made sure that all of these rifles, other than the one offs from the Khyber, had parts that could be interchanged, with little or no hand fitting.

When other nations, such as Turkey/Italy/Austria/Holland and many others adopted these rifles for first line or secondary use they often stripped unrepairable rifles for useable parts and didn't bother to sort them out by manufacturer or nationality.

The Australians lost thousands of Lithgow produced rifles at Galipoli and the Turks put those rifles into service. Even converted some of them to 8x57 Frankenmausers.

Are the rifles that were FTRed or repaired by those nations uncollectable or incorrect??? Not IMHO.

I've had unmolested, completely original factory No1 rifles dating from the mid 1890s to new made Indian rifles, which I believe are still being made/issued to this very day.

They're fantastic firearms and a joy to handle.

There are very few of these rifles that haven't seen some sort of repairs from minor bits to being stripped down to their individual components, compeletely refinished, all necessary parts replaced.

IMHO 99% of the rifles out there have gone through some sort of repair process and in most instances, the replacement or repaired parts did not come from the same manufacturers.

Lots of the parts on these rifles were not made up by the company stamped on the butt socket. The manufacture of those parts were contracted to small producers of such things.

It's sort of like demanding that a Garand M1 have all matching parts from the same manufacturer. It happened but wasn't the norm.
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100% personally I don't get all caught up in original manufacturer parts, rather the story of the rifle itself. That is why the nose cap is concerning to me, as it can tell the story of a rifle being 'restored' as opposed to a rifle that was used/issued that way. As a example I would buy one with a mismatched nosecap if I was buying the rifle from the States as they don't have the same 'de-sporterizing' cottage industry we have, at least not for Lee Enfields. Its all about knowing what you are buying, and in the OPs case there is a ton of red flags for what he is purchasing. This is why I like my unloved milsurps so much (M95s, etc.), not many people are messing with them and you can be fairly confident in what you are purchasing.
 
Thank you gentlemen, a little update and probably the last one about this purchase.
Communication from seller ceased after I asked to see a photo of the serial number on the barrel. Safe to assume he won't be sending me any photos of the serial numbers.
The only thing he's quick to do is provide his EMT email. He wouldn't even tell me his name until I said I might need it later if this deal ever go through and maybe will need it for the EMT.
Even then he gave me a nickname and not his full name. Hard pass on this one.
Thank you all too for teaching how to identify a SMLE and possible dishonest sellers.
And thanks again, I did take lots of notes from every single one of you from this thread!
Have a great weekend guys, you all are the best!
 
jtaylor said:
Hi GoodD. Factory Thorough Repair SMLE rifles were reasonably common a few decades ago. All were redone in Suncorite (black paint) and had new beach stocks and usually dated 1953 or 54. Some .22 SMLEs in this group too. All were refurbished by BSA with new BSA barrels- probably a make work project on a foreign approved contract awarded to BSA to keep the factory running till the FN was made. Long Branch re-built someNo.4s after WW2 usually dated /46 and of course many Brit No. 4s upgraded by Fazakerly. Prior to WW2 a rifle was repaired and made serviceable but finish remained blue with the repair date '34 say stamped into the LS socket. A FTR rifle should be totally serviceable. As far as bring back Enfields or Rosses they are non-existent unless Battalion trophies. Only fools think otherwise. Any SMLE rifle repaired during War time was usually not marked at all. What the seller probably meant is that all the parts have a war time blued finish that match up. Most are not aware that Pattern B beach furniture was approved post WW1 so if that '17 has any beach it is a replacement part. Prior to WW2 Canada upgraded almost all of their SMLEs and used whatever replacement parts were on hand. JOHN
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John, I agree with everything you said except for the bold.

This is simply not true. There are documented bring-back "snuck home" SMLE rifles in Canada.

Off the top of my head, one exists in the CWM inventory, one in La Citadel, as well as at least one in a private collection that I know of in Ontario. Their full histories being traceable to the individual who kept them.

Are they rare? Yes, exceedingly. But did it happen? Yes.
 
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