Winchester 1895 crack in action

[iroc22]

I recently was digging out the dusty guns in the back of the safe as I usually do occasionally to inspect and clean them.

In the process of cleaning my 1895 Winchester I noticed something alarming that I don't remember seeing before - a crack in the bolt near the face:



Is this thing suddenly a wall hanger now or can a smith repair this (likely not)? Luckily it's just a 303 British and not a 35 Win or 405 Win, but still disappointing as the bore is excellent.

Odd too as I have a decent sized collection of 100+ year old guns and never seen anything like this, even with the other even older Winchesters.

Thanks

 

[Potashminer]

Sorry to hear that! Just looking at your picture - that piece to right side of the extractor is displaced - I think that is more than a "crack" - I would suspect that front right corner is broken right off?? Since it is a load bearing component (I think), likely needs complete dismantle, weld and then re-heat treat (?) - not sure where that can be done - perhaps easiest is to look for a replacement bolt body? I have no good thought as to how such a break could occur sitting in a cabinet - is there a broken or foreign piece of something ahead of the bolt, on that side? That applied unequal force when the bolt was closed??

I have never had one in my hands, so mostly guessing from pictures that I see on Internet - I think there is a "nose" on the bolt on that side at front - so should be a recess that it wants to go into - perhaps that recess packed solid with dirt / crap? A wild guess to try to explain how that break could occur - if cause not figured out, then can be repeated with a replacement piece?? As well, from that picture - appears like the curve on top rear of extractor might be displaced from that curve on left side? Internet pictures usually showing all as a smooth curve - left side, extractor, then right side?

 

[fingers284]

Gun shows with a plethora of those "junky tables of old rusty stuff" are going to be your friend by the looks of it....happy hunting.

 

[iroc22]

Sorry to hear that! Just looking at your picture - that piece to right side of the extractor is displaced - I think that is more than a "crack" - I would suspect that front right corner is broken right off?? Since it is a load bearing component (I think), likely needs complete dismantle, weld and then re-heat treat (?) - not sure where that can be done - perhaps easiest is to look for a replacement bolt body? I have no good thought as to how such a break could occur sitting in a cabinet - is there a broken or foreign piece of something ahead of the bolt, on that side? That applied unequal force when the bolt was closed??

I have never had one in my hands, so mostly guessing from pictures that I see on Internet - I think there is a "nose" on the bolt on that side at front - so should be a recess that it wants to go into - perhaps that recess packed solid with dirt / crap? A wild guess to try to explain how that break could occur - if cause not figured out, then can be repeated with a replacement piece?? As well, from that picture - appears like the curve on top rear of extractor might be displaced from that curve on left side? Internet pictures usually showing all as a smooth curve - left side, extractor, then right side?

So the right side is indeed displaced and cracked, however the crack does not go all the way through the bolt, however it has gone through enough to bend it over like that. I suspect the break occurred the last time I shot it and I have just somehow noticed it now. However, I think you are onto something with the opposing force thing. If you look a bit closer in front of that bent side there is a tiny piece of metal protruding. I noticed this when I looked again and it seems like a small piece of metal from where the start of the chamber is and the long extractor claw goes into a slot in the receiver sort of rolled over and it now protruding. I don't know how I just noticed this now and I have no idea how that piece of metal could have rolled over like that.

I've contacted a few gunsmiths and it seems like no one is super interested in attempting to weld it. I've been looking around for a breech bolt now to try and replace the whole thing. I'm assuming since it's a 303 British, I'd have to find a bolt from a 30-40, 35 Win, 405 Win or 38-72 as the rim diameters are all pretty close.

 

[bearhunter]

If it's just on the corner, beside the cut out. It's main purpose in life is to prevent blowback of gasses and bits, into your face, if there's a case failure.

I had one chambered for the 30-40 Krag, with exactly the same issue.

That was appx 35 years ago.

A knowledgeable fellow on these rifles told me to just go ahead and shoot it, with appropriate loads, as in not near maximum or new factory ammo.

The rim is fully covered by the rest of the bolt face so the strength is still there.

A replacement bolt on E bay, in worn/pitted condition sells for US$200.

I shot my rifle a lot after that piece broke right off, without any issues.

It's likely the weakest area of the bolt, but it isn't a critical face for operation, other than it's no longer doing its job as a shield.

It may give a bit of support to the extractor, but mostly it just sits there doing the job it was intended to do.

If it were my rifle, I would just shoot it with moderate loads, fireformed to that particular rifle's chamber or factory ammo, if you can find it.

It's your rifle though and if you're uncomfortable with it, then a bolt replacement is your best option.

Did you have trouble opening the bolt with the lever and use something to pry it back???

 

[iroc22]

bearhunter, thank you for your reply. It did really put my mind at ease on this issue.

I had been shooting new factory Winchester loads from this rifle every time I took it out - which was not often at all, it's maybe seen 25 rounds from me during the time I have owned it. Maybe a bit silly, since I have all the reloading equipment for 303 British and could have easily run minimum loads through the rifle. I guess hindsight 20/20 on that one.

I'm going to keep exploring the option of bolt replacement for now as I haven't exhausted all options yet.

There is no trouble operating the bolt and lever at all despite the fact the extractor looks slightly bent to the right. The gun still functions perfectly. It also shot perfectly the last time I had it out at the range.

 

[bearhunter]

I'm willing to bet that extractor got bent and the corner broke at the same time???

Likely when a cartridge was single loaded, without using the magazine and forcing the bolt over the cartridge rim.

That's what happened to mine.

Those rifles are designed to feed from the magazine period. Some folks get away with just shoving a cartridge into the chamber and slamming the bolt hard enough for the extractor to ride over the rim, until something breaks. Usually, it's the extractor.

 

[iroc22]

I'm willing to bet that extractor got bent and the corner broke at the same time???

Likely when a cartridge was single loaded, without using the magazine and forcing the bolt over the cartridge rim.

That's what happened to mine.

Those rifles are designed to feed from the magazine period. Some folks get away with just shoving a cartridge into the chamber and slamming the bolt hard enough for the extractor to ride over the rim, until something breaks. Usually, it's the extractor.

This was likely what was done from the previous owner then as I have no idea of the history of the rifle and I have been pretty careful with this rifle and only fed from magazine.

I managed to find a bolt body in the US. Does an item like that require an export permit to get across the border into Canada?

 

[Mik123]

Yes it does.

This was likely what was done from the previous owner then as I have no idea of the history of the rifle and I have been pretty careful with this rifle and only fed from magazine.

I managed to find a bolt body in the US. Does an item like that require an export permit to get across the border into Canada?