More 375 h&h questions

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25tikka

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I recently got a 375 H&H and can only get 270 Hornady heavy mags and 300 winchester silvertips.......Anyone shooting the 235 barnes? The # 3 manual shows this bullet over 3000 fps. Can anyone comment on these velocity figures or velocity of any othe lighter bullets (200-250gr) It looks like with the 235s, a guy could have 338 trajectory and a few 300s in a pocket for close work or Grizz problems....What a great combo it should be. I was certainly amazed with the recoil....figured she would be a lot worse.:):):)
 
25tikka,

I like to look at big guns a bit different than some. In my opinion if you have a 338 or larger bore and are attempting to flatten your trajectory by running light bullets you are better off with a slightly smaller caliber.......

Most of us choose 338mags over the 30mags because we want more knock down, bone smashing, and deep penetrating killing power. The reason some prefer the 375 over the 338 is because it has more frontal area and knockdown power. Small for caliber bullets create an environment for potentially decreasing this extra terminal performance by reducing penetration and possibly making a smaller wound channel on a shot requiring deep penetration. This does not come into effect on deer with a bullets such as the 235 Barnes TSX. Then again if you are hunting deer in bear country the bigger bullet won't hurt the deer any less.....

The second reason to use big bullets is in retained energy. If I load my 375 Ultra (max) with 235gr TSX's and you load your 375 H&H (max) with 300gr TSX's at 400 yards your bullet will hit a lot harder than mine. Retained energy will be similar but the big 300 carries much more momentum (bone breaking power) and will penetrate farther.......The 375 Ultra makes a bunch more power than the H&H but small bullets absolutely neuter the big case!

Load TSX's in 235gr (at 3000fps) and 300gr (at 2650fps) and zero both at 250 yards.......At 350 yards the 235 will be down 9 inches while the 300 will drop 10.5 inches. In actual field shooting you will never see the difference.


That the 300gr 375 makes a serious impression on big game such as moose, grizzly, and for that matter cape buffalo is a matter of history. If you took your 375 loaded with 235 grain bullets to African on a (non dangerous) plains game safari the PH would look at you like you had 6 eyes!

African Professional Hunters have a better understand of what makes up good killing power than any other on this planet.....They will tell you not to mess with perfection.......
 
Excellent post X-Fan!

I have nothing useful to add except that a .375 H&H loaded with 300 gr bullets will do anything that the rifle is required to do. Winchester Silvertips are not the best choice however; in the cheaper lines the Hornady Interlock is a much better bullet. Faster isn't always better, and the moderate velocity of the 300 gr bullet in the H&H will ensure good terminal performance without bullet failure. There are more than a few African PH's that want their client to show up with one rifle (a .375 H&H) and ammunition loaded with one bullet ( a 300 gr X) and use it for everything when buffalo are on the list.
 
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Yes XFan. well said and right on the money.
I've used 235's (Speer)for varminting and OH Lord do they work and acurately. More to prove the acuracy of the .375 than the real need for 4500ftlbs on a 10lb woodchuck:eek: I doubt the 300's would cause any more and most likely less meat loss than the light bullets.
The 235's I used sent some of the chucks helicoptering 8 or 10 ft in the air with guts stringing at least that far. As much to prove the accuracy at longer range with a heavier rifle as it was to have a bit of fun. The chucks need to go anyway and they sure all died quickly;)
 
I could cheerfully use the 270 TSX for everything that doesn't require a solid, and not feel too disadvantaged. 300s hit and penetrate about the same, as near as I can tell, and gave up a little in trajectory. I did hunt with one PH that loved the 235 grain TSX for culling, to the extent that he swore that if he would have known about it sooner he would never have bothered getting his .300 Win Mag. The mono bullets change alot of the rules.
 
On a recent plainsgame hunt to Namibia I used 300 gr A-Frames. The country was quite open, and several of my shots were slightly over 200 yards, and none were less than 100 yds. My rifle was sighted to zero at 200 yards, and I held point blank on every shot. Most animals dropped as if struck by the Hammer of Thor, and my longest tracking job was 200 yards.

If you check the ballistic tables there isn't enough practical difference between the trajectory of the 270 gr and the 300 gr. bullet to make any difference in a hunting situation. Both are pretty flat out to 225 yards, and then they start dropping like a pumpkin. As far as terminal performance is concerned, you can't get any deader than dead.

Add my agreement to X-fan's post. If you want a flatter trajectory than the 375 H&H's 270 and 300 gr bullets, then go to a smaller, faster calibre. If you want big holes, then stay with the 375. There's no free lunch!
 
savagefan said:
My 602 doesn't shoot light bullets worth a lick, but 300 gr interlocks are awesome accurate.
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Dido for the Remington BDL (stainless/synth.) worked up about a dozen loads using half dozen powders for Speer's 235 grainers. Couldn't get a decent group from the lot. Use Barne X 270 Gr. bullets 3/4" at a 100 on a really good day.
 
I've been seeing more talk in some of the gun rags on sectional density and how it relates to penetration. Basically if you compare a 250 gr .375 and a 200 gr .338 at similar speeds the .338 with a higher sectional density will out penetrate the .375. This is actually mentioned in this month’s guns and ammo mag.

So by shooting the lighter bullets in a larger caliber you can reproduce the ballistics of the smaller calibers but the smaller calibers will actually out penetrate the larger ones in these scenarios, in general. So why go with a 375.

Osborne
 
as far as i understand it also depend on the expanasion of the projectle, retained weight ,the energy used and imparted during expansion as well as the sectional density and remaining energy after expansion .

a 200g .338(250sd) and a 250g .375 (254sd)will have roughly the same sectional density
 
osborne said:
I've been seeing more talk in some of the gun rags on sectional density and how it relates to penetration. Basically if you compare a 250 gr .375 and a 200 gr .338 at similar speeds the .338 with a higher sectional density will out penetrate the .375. This is actually mentioned in this month’s guns and ammo mag.

So by shooting the lighter bullets in a larger caliber you can reproduce the ballistics of the smaller calibers but the smaller calibers will actually out penetrate the larger ones in these scenarios, in general. So why go with a 375.

Osborne
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Oh my goodness Son! That's like saying your little sister is a finer woman than your Mama:eek:. Good thing we have Guns and Amo to keep us abreast of these new findings;)
300 BTSP Hornady Interlock @ roughly 4500ftlbs sighted 2.5 high at @100 is only 9" low @330yrds. Why not go with a .375?
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osborne said:
I've been seeing more talk in some of the gun rags on sectional density and how it relates to penetration. Basically if you compare a 250 gr .375 and a 200 gr .338 at similar speeds the .338 with a higher sectional density will out penetrate the .375. This is actually mentioned in this month’s guns and ammo mag.

So by shooting the lighter bullets in a larger caliber you can reproduce the ballistics of the smaller calibers but the smaller calibers will actually out penetrate the larger ones in these scenarios, in general. So why go with a 375.

Osborne
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Sectional density is useful predictor of penetration with solids, but it goes out the window as soon as the bullet expands. Once the bullet expands, mass and velocity determines the amount of penetration in a given media.

Consider the bullets in your example. If velocity is the same, the chances are penetration will be similar due to the fact that the heavier bullet would expand to a larger diameter, and the larger diameter limits penetration. The lighter bullet has less mass and would loose velocity faster than the heavier bullet, but it's smaller expanded diameter makes up for it's smaller mass.
 
rebel01 said:
I just aquired a 700 KS Safari and plan on changing the scope.What would I sight it in for at 100 yds.using Rem.Express rifle ammo in 270gr.Sp's? I,m sort of limited as to where I can shoot.(for now)
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Ideally you want to confirm your zero by shooting at that distance. The problem is effected by the height of the scope above the bore as well as the trajectory of the bullet you shoot, but you might try this. Sight in to hit point of aim at 50 yards, then shoot at 100 to see how high it prints. The 50 yard zero should give you something close to a 200 yard zero, but if your bullet hits more than 2.5" high at 100 I'd bring it down a bit. Once you're sighted in you might find it interesting to shoot at 25, 50 and 75 so you are sure of the load's mid range trajectory. This could be written down and compared later to a long range trectory table for comparison.
 
I agree there are endless factors to consider when looking looking at bulet penetration. Maybe I should have taken some more time with my response which was written as an "all else being equal" comparison. To put it simply if I owned a rifle larger than .38 (which I don't anymore) I'd go with the heavier bullets. I'm a believer in big and slow!
 
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