Test targets that ship with rifles-do you trust them?

.22LRGUY

.22LRGUY

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
174   0   1
Location
Ontario
Something rare happened a couple of weeks ago, I went into my LGS prepared to buy a NEW rifle...even though it meant tax. lol Rifle was a CZ457. Now, I not only preach about ammo testing a new 22LR rifle to see what it likes, I go to great lengths and some expense to do it. I've seen how huge the variations can be, how sometimes only 1 ammo will shoot well. Nobody likes fussy guns. :)

Anyhow, the gun felt good...decision was made, then the guy assisting me at the store began preparing to pack the gun back up and saw the literature and test target. He looked at the target and said; "that doesn't look so good". I was surprised to see a very "open" group and if memory serves, I believe it was shot @ 50 yards, and the ammo was RWS. Got me wondering how these tests were done (action in a vise?) but I quickly got cold feet on the purchase. Of THAT particular gun, anyway.

I'm still considering this model, but having owned so many 22s over the years that never had test targets attached to them...I'm sort of tripping up on this idea a bit. I've only had 1 x 22LR rifle that just wouldn't shoot decently accurate after a couple of ammo-testing sessions..and there aren't many holes in the selection of 22 ammo I bring out on these occasions. I also expect a decent factory gun to shoot well out of the gate, without the need to bed it, tweak the trigger, etc. Certainly, a new CZ457 should.

Opinion-am I overthinking this? Any of you 457 owners get a stinker of a test target, but the gun shoots great?
 
What was the dispersion on that test target? I think the general consensus is that three shots to check function is all that target is and most will shoot better after break in. The one I got was very good (test target shows 7mm dispersion which is pretty rare) and it shoots very well with SK+.
 
WHICH model/version? There are 2 distinct chambers/barrels... not sure if there are more but the hunting barrel would likely not like a true match ammo.

Where as the match chamber should.

Jerry
 
Last edited:
Mystic Precision said:
WHICH moder/version? There are 2 distinct chambers/barrels... not sure if there are more but the hunting barrel would likely not like a true match ammo.

Where as the match chamber should.

Jerry
Click to expand...

Hi Jerry-it was/is a CZ457 Scout. It appeared to be over 1" spread @ 50 yards, if the distance noted on the test target was correct. I've read a few accounts of how well CZ 452 Scouts shoot, and recognize the role that barrel length plays with velocity. I can't say as I knew that CZ had different chambers in the 457 line. Hmmm

Again, I'm relatively confident that if I ran every ammo type I own through the same gun...at least one or two ammo types should shoot well. I also have faith that very few CZs leave the factory with problem barrels, none that I've owned had issues.
 
I was under impression that the "test" target was not necessarily a "group" - I thought it was from the factory setting the sights to be to point of impact at the stated range with the stated ammo, while also function testing the rifle. The one and only example that I have - a CZ Scout rimfire, which has iron sights - has one hole precisely dead centre at the aiming point - had never really thought more about it - I do not have opportunity to buy the same ammo / same lot that they used - I thought it was about "sighting in", not group size???
 
Last edited:
Potashminer said:
I was under impression that the "test" target was not necessarily a "group" - I thought it was from the factory setting the sights to be to point of impact at the stated range with the stated ammo, while also function testing the rifle. The one and only example that I have - a CZ Scout rimfire, which has iron sights - has one hole precisely dead centre at the aiming point - had never really thought more about it - I do not have opportunity to buy the same ammo / same lot that they used - I thought it was about "sighting in", not group size???
Click to expand...

Not all the CZ rifles have sights. I heard the primary reason was just a function test, but also an idea of accuracy. And as we all know, just because it shoots one brand great or poorly, does not indicate how other ammo will shoot. Having a great test target with a small group sure does make you feel good though.
 
Each is different, I suppose - small tight groups that I shot, make me feel good. A Buddy shot a much tighter group than I had ever done - before or since - with my rifle and my hand loads - he was just a better shooter than I was, or got lucky for that 5 rounds - but annoyed the hell out of me for years, that I could not match the 5 round group he shot that day!!! 20 years later, I mailed that target to him to get it out of my face. I no longer own the rifle, either. It was a Savage 112V in 22-250, with a 10X Lyman All-American scope. In those days, we did not have real measuring tools - we covered his 5 holes - completely - with the case head of a 22-250 case. So his centre to centre for 5 shots at 100 yards had to be .473" - .224" = .249" group, or less. So each one of his 5 rounds would have got at least a piece of the base of a .224" flat base bullet. Was more like a hole in the paper with 4 or 5 lumps to the hole
 
Last edited:
.22LRGUY said:
Hi Jerry-it was/is a CZ457 Scout. It appeared to be over 1" spread @ 50 yards, if the distance noted on the test target was correct. I've read a few accounts of how well CZ 452 Scouts shoot, and recognize the role that barrel length plays with velocity. I can't say as I knew that CZ had different chambers in the 457 line. Hmmm

Again, I'm relatively confident that if I ran every ammo type I own through the same gun...at least one or two ammo types should shoot well. I also have faith that very few CZs leave the factory with problem barrels, none that I've owned had issues.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are going to be a proud owner of another CZ... should be a very nice rifle
Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
Sounds like you are going to be a proud owner of another CZ... should be a very nice rifle
Jerry
Click to expand...

Hope so Jerry. :) I seem to (normally) have no issues shooting guns with a shorter LOP, this one seems super tiny though. The desire is there, and that stretches back to both of the Norinco JW-15A BackPackers I owned at different points. Just liked having a small 22 around for days when I was carrying more than shooting. Only hesitation now is how I might add a little length without changing the gun much...or spending much more. Limbsavers come that small? lol

Wonder if the (full-sized) 457 American stock would have the same barrel profile. (receiver-forward)
 
Unfortunately I don't have records for all the new CZ rifles I've had. The "worst" test target showed 34mm of dispersion, the best 8mm.

It appears that, in recent years anyway, many CZ rifles have been tested with some kind of RWS ammo, very possibly RWS Club, which Anschutz has also used extensively. Some models are tested with Lapua X-Act, perhaps only those with the "CZ match chamber" such as the MTR.

There's a general consensus on RFC by experienced CZ shooters that the test is for function only. At the same time it must be kept in mind that consensus isn't the same as evidence or definitive proof. Considering the wide range of dispersion patterns that appear with the so-called test targets, however, it seems to me that the best purpose of these targets is to indicate satisfactory function. Among the test targets for which I do have records, they've ranged from a low of 8mm (.314") to as high as 34mm (1.33"). I assume the dispersion is measured center-to-center.

I wouldn't expect that any rifle manufacturer that provides test targets uses lot tested ammo in any of the testing. I wouldn't expect the test targets to be definitive proof of the rifle shoots. Of course, not all CZ barrels are the same. I had one that wouldn't come close to shooting well, struggling to produce 1/2" groups at 25 yards with a variety of ammos. Only a barrel change, and perhaps the pillars and bedding that accompanied it, enabled it to shoot respectably.

Below on the left is a test target for a CZ 457 MTR. I had this rifle a couple years ago. The target was shot with Lapua X-Act, perhaps the most expensive variety of .22LR ammo. The dispersion was 8mm or .314". My feeling is that for the match chambered models, which are the only CZ .22LR models to have a CZ 1 MOA at 50 yards guarantee, are "tested" with ammo that is usually better than average. It won't necessarily lead to a 1 MOA test target, but the guarantee doesn't need to depend on such a result. My experience with this rifle was that, while it could make the 1/2" challenge, it wasn't as straightforward as desired.

An example of the other end of performance on a test target is the target on the right. It was created by a 452 Varmint using RWS ammo. I don't know how this rifle shot.

 
grauhanen said:
Unfortunately I don't have records for all the new CZ rifles I've had. The "worst" test target showed 34mm of dispersion, the best 8mm.

It appears that, in recent years anyway, many CZ rifles have been tested with some kind of RWS ammo, very possibly RWS Club, which Anschutz has also used extensively. Some models are tested with Lapua X-Act, perhaps only those with the "CZ match chamber" such as the MTR.

There's a general consensus on RFC by experienced CZ shooters that the test is for function only. At the same time it must be kept in mind that consensus isn't the same as evidence or definitive proof. Considering the wide range of dispersion patterns that appear with the so-called test targets, however, it seems to me that the best purpose of these targets is to indicate satisfactory function. Among the test targets for which I do have records, they've ranged from a low of 8mm (.314") to as high as 34mm (1.33"). I assume the dispersion is measured center-to-center.

I wouldn't expect that any rifle manufacturer that provides test targets uses lot tested ammo in any of the testing. I wouldn't expect the test targets to be definitive proof of the rifle shoots. Of course, not all CZ barrels are the same. I had one that wouldn't come close to shooting well, struggling to produce 1/2" groups at 25 yards with a variety of ammos. Only a barrel change, and perhaps the pillars and bedding that accompanied it, enabled it to shoot respectably.

Below on the left is a test target for a CZ 457 MTR. I had this rifle a couple years ago. The target was shot with Lapua X-Act, perhaps the most expensive variety of .22LR ammo. The dispersion was 8mm or .314". My feeling is that for the match chambered models, which are the only CZ .22LR models to have a CZ 1 MOA at 50 yards guarantee, are "tested" with ammo that is usually better than average. It won't necessarily lead to a 1 MOA test target, but the guarantee doesn't need to depend on such a result. My experience with this rifle was that, while it could make the 1/2" challenge, it wasn't as straightforward as desired.

An example of the other end of performance on a test target is the target on the right. It was created by a 452 Varmint using RWS ammo. I don't know how this rifle shot.

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting grauhanen. The page in the box with the rifle looked like the second in your post, with one just "outside the wire" if memory serves. I'm confident in the build quality though, and will likely make a move on one of these little plinkers.

Of course, it occurred to me that if that "test target" wasn't in the box with the rifle-I'd have probably bought the thing. lol Now, the temptation is to ask the retailer to see it in advance, be in an in-person sale...or online.

Thanks to everyone who posted!
 
.22LRGUY said:
Something rare happened a couple of weeks ago, I went into my LGS prepared to buy a NEW rifle...even though it meant tax. lol Rifle was a CZ457. Now, I not only preach about ammo testing a new 22LR rifle to see what it likes, I go to great lengths and some expense to do it. I've seen how huge the variations can be, how sometimes only 1 ammo will shoot well. Nobody likes fussy guns. :)

Anyhow, the gun felt good...decision was made, then the guy assisting me at the store began preparing to pack the gun back up and saw the literature and test target. He looked at the target and said; "that doesn't look so good". I was surprised to see a very "open" group and if memory serves, I believe it was shot @ 50 yards, and the ammo was RWS. Got me wondering how these tests were done (action in a vise?) but I quickly got cold feet on the purchase. Of THAT particular gun, anyway.

I'm still considering this model, but having owned so many 22s over the years that never had test targets attached to them...I'm sort of tripping up on this idea a bit. I've only had 1 x 22LR rifle that just wouldn't shoot decently accurate after a couple of ammo-testing sessions..and there aren't many holes in the selection of 22 ammo I bring out on these occasions. I also expect a decent factory gun to shoot well out of the gate, without the need to bed it, tweak the trigger, etc. Certainly, a new CZ457 should.

Opinion-am I overthinking this? Any of you 457 owners get a stinker of a test target, but the gun shoots great?
Click to expand...

I agree with those who said that the Test Targets were not shot for groups, but for function. Which is still questionable. If they were tested for function only, there's no need for a 50 yard target. Why bother with targets at all? I'm perplexed why a test target is even included.
 
From what I've read on various rimfire forums, some manufacturer shoot group for precision (Anschutz-Cooper) while other for fonction (CZ).
I don't have any 455 or 457, but I have/had many 452's. Some factory groups for these 452 weren't very good, and it wasn't difficult to make better groups with the rifle than the one from factory. So I wouldn't sweat on the factory target from CZ for buying a rifle.
That is, unless CZ have changed its factory supplied test targets politic with the 457 line.
 
Yep.. my cz452 came with a discouraging test target.. i was going to return it but tested it out before..
glad i did because it shoots very nicely.. i have no idea what that guy in the factory was doing ..
I believe he must have been standing and shooting without a scope… after a night of heavy drinking .. lol.

CZ … fire that guy and get someone in there who can shoot. Jeeeeez
 
Every CZ or Wby Vanguard I have bought the test target gave me artificial confidence and that was soon washed away when I started shooting the rifle.
They inherently shoot better than I am capable of, but thats usually do to the fact I have had three cups of coffee before getting to the gravel pit.
Rob
 
I believe cz is for function, my cz test target is underwhelming, to its actual performance by me.my test target was high-end rws.i read somewhere that cz head office verified it was to show function.which makes me question how my anschutz 1761 completed a function test when my bolt wasn't set up properly to shoot a string of 5 from the bolt,so there's that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom