Float or Not to Float

[Blackthorne]

For anyone who is wondering why I am putting this much effort into a 14, the answer is both to make it a more accurate rifle, but also to learn. This is my practice project. So please, don't look at me like I'm insane when I list one of my goals as a 1 inch group at 300 with match ammo for under $600 total in rifle and mods

I don't care if I never get there, it's the trip...dig?

OK...next M14 newbstick question...

The M14 comes with what might be considered a "light" barrel, as opposed to the heavy barrels seen in rifles set up for long range shooting.

I have read in my travels across the interweb that floating works well for heavy barrels but not so much for light barrels as they have much different harmonics and don't have the mass to properly support themselves when fully floated.

Anyone here have an opinion as to what the best approach is for a Norinco M14? Considering what I have read up so far, I am thinking that more support is better between the stock and barrel (after the stock is either upgraded to synthatic or re-enforced).

Opinions please, and directions if someone has already covered this....

 

[H2O MAN]

I don't think you can fully free float the barrel on an M14, but I know you can free float the barrel forward of the op rod guide.
The SAGE EBR stock will accomplish this and provide tension bedding - both are known to shrink the size of your groups.
Unfortunately, you will not be able to stay under your $600 limit if you get a SAGE.

 

[Grizzlypeg]

Here's my understanding of the status quo strategy rather than re-inventing the wheel. The barrel support strategy provides the most accuracy, and involves a preload of tension between the barrel and the tip of the stock. There is both preload tension that involves the flex of the stock foreend, and dampened movement between the stock ferule and the barrel band. The barrel moves, but is dampened by the tension, to some presumably consistent pattern, and re-sets itself into the same settled position in between shots. This means the barrel band to ferule while it may move, it needs to be smooth and possibly greased to aid consistent repositioning.

I've got to get a book on the subject and read up on the finer points. This has all been heavily studied by competitors and gunsmiths in the past.

Hungry here: That's what we discuss during the M14 clinics. Bottom line: Save your money for practice ammo. Work on your position shooting with a .22LR, then transfer the training to the M14. Learn to shoot with a sing, practice your magazine changes from ALL of your shooting positions. In the meantime, save your money for good glass or scope mount. Do all the handjob tweaks first or at least the cheapest tweaks. We'll be doing that during our M14 Clinic afternoon sessions.



I think with the right setup and ammo you will be able to achieve under 2" at 300 yards.

 

[tiriaq]

When the M-14 rifle was the standard National Match competition rifle in the US, just about every possible tweak was developed to improve accuracy. The rifle still had to look like a standard service rifle, so something like a Sage stock was not allowed. There are many modifications that can enhance accuracy. Some are extreme, like welding an additional lug to the receiver to improve stability of receiver bedding. New recivers incorporating the lug have been made. Sooner or later the welded receivers tended to crack.
With a bit of research, you will be able to find a long list of modifications that you can choose from. Your $ cap is certainly going to limit what you can do, but maybe that is not a bad thing.

 

[Blackthorne]

The barrel moves, but is dampened by the tension, to some presumably consistent pattern, and re-sets itself into the same settled position in between shots.

So it's not stopping movement as much as it is controling it and making it repeatable.

I am not going for a synthetic stock. I have seen a few good resources online that are detailed in reenforcing the Chinese wood stock with either steel rods or fibreglass rods and fiberglass laminations, both of which I can do myself.

Your $ cap is certainly going to limit what you can do, but maybe that is not a bad thing.

I have limited myself for several reasons, not the least of which is how familiar you get with your rifle solving gunsmithing issues with your own brain. You don't get that (as much) with an off the shelf solution.

The other reason is if the S really does ever HTF, there probably won't be a gunsmith around to do this stuff for me.

Thansk guys! I have allot of reading to do.....

 

[powmia56]

H2O man, just a heads up, you have a socket wrench still on the front of your rifle. Looks like the bullet might clip the top of it on the way out so you may wish to take it off before shooting.

 

[H2O MAN]

H2O man, just a heads up, you have a socket wrench still on the front of your rifle.

That's how I roll

 

[45ACPKING]

now..... what about the jae stock and it's tab or clamp that attaches to the lip of the forstock and clamps the stock band.... it as interested feature of the stock... but does it improve accuracy?

 

[rdelliott]

For anyone who is wondering why I am putting this much effort into a 14, the answer is both to make it a more accurate rifle, but also to learn. This is my practice project. So please, don't look at me like I'm insane when I list one of my goals as a 1 inch group at 300 with match ammo for under $600 total in rifle and mods

Dude, should I be worried that this sounds to me like an entirely reasonable and really fun thing to be doing?

 

[45ACPKING]

so... i see how the aluminum stocks have the oprod guide replacement part to float the barrel......
so.... on a fiberglass stock.... i wonder if "bedding" the oprod guide area of the stock to mate with the guide is a good idea....... think i mght try it

 

[Blackthorne]

so... i see how the aluminum stocks have the oprod guide replacement part to float the barrel......
so.... on a fiberglass stock.... i wonder if "bedding" the oprod guide area of the stock to mate with the guide is a good idea....... think i mght try it

That's exactly what I had planned to do..

I built up the op rod guide and "the part where the piston is" (piston housing? - forgive me, not yet up to speed on all the part names, now if it was an SKS! ) with electrical tape in layers. I have about 2MM on the op rod guide to seat it on the stock, and 1.12 on the piston housing. Won't be valid data once I put in the reinforcing rod, but i just wanted to se how much play I had....

I figure I will:

1 - route out a channel inside the forestock for the rod I am going to put in to reinforce the front end

2 - route a channel for a picatinny rail on the bottom of the forestock for a bipod mount, place the rail in and screw through the stock to the reinforcing rod

3 - glass in 1 and 2

4 - use glass to build up a mount that matches to the op rod guide and piston housing

5 - Glass the rest of the stock

6 - SAND AND KRYLON BABY!

 

[Lazerus2000]

We could talk about this at the next 14 group hug at 45's place, Jan 05...
I've got a few ideas that might interest those who want to fool around with wild and crazy mods to the 14.
Including a cheap do-it-yourself aluminum stock [ sage/Troy/Marstar clone? ] which would go with the replacement op rod guide mount, and floating the barrel from there forward.

BUT,
and notice this is a BIG BUT,
why bother?

Basically stock M-14 rifles are capable of consistent sub 2 MOA fairly easily, and usually at minimal cost.

However,
to get down to CONSISTENT subMOA, your spending goes up EXPONENTIALLY!

Or, to put it another way,
"speed costs money ...
how fast can you afford to go?"

Personally,
I prefer to do everything I can do myself for free first,
then try lots of different brands and types of ammo next,
and then I usually say ...
"Well heck, it shoots pretty darned good just the way it is".
PS:
If you have way too much money,
and not enough brains,
I still have my JAE 100 stock for sale too.
[;{)
LAZ 1

 

[Hungry]

Laz:

I thank you so much for trying to help keep their spending down. Thanks also for the sound advice of tighter groups below the 1.5" mark costing an exponential rate !!

SAVE YOUR money folks.... buy practice ammo and then come out to the Service Rifle matches to put your tweaked M14's through their paces.

Everyone is rushing to throw money at the $ 400 Norinco-Plinko.... JUST DON'T do it.... otherwise yer #### will fall off !