CF small arms trial completed

It's not over yet. The procurement has been derailed.

If Canada can't replace pistols made in 1944 with a procurement started in 2011, I guess replacement fighters, frigates, submarines are not coming any time soon.

News Defence Watch
Tribunal tells federal government to restart military pistol purchase; favouritism alleged
Public Services and Procurement Canada and National Defence are waiting for the Canadian International Trade Tribunal to release its reasons for the decision.

Author of the article:David Pugliese • Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date:Nov 23, 2021 • 14 hours ago • 3 minute read

The federal government has been told to restart its efforts to buy a new pistol for the Canadian military after its latest venture was deemed to favour certain bidders.

Canada has been trying to buy a new handgun for the army since at least 2011, but has continually run into problems.

Federal government officials originally went to companies in the summer to request bids for new pistols to replace the army’s Browning Hi-Power handguns. The plan was to award a contract for a new gun by December and to start delivering weapons to troops in the summer of 2022.

But that process came to a halt after Ottawa’s Rampart International, the firm that represents handgun manufacturer Glock in the Canadian market, filed a complaint with the Canadian International Trade Tribunal. Rampart alleged the government-run competition favoured Glock’s rivals, Beretta and Sig Sauer.

On Nov. 10, the CITT determined the complaint was valid in part. While it has yet to release its full ruling, the CITT recommended Public Services and Procurement Canada cancel the competition and begin a new one, changing some wording in its requirements.
 
nitroxace said:
First the debacle with the Canadian Forces helicopter replacement, then the subs, fighter jet procurement and now firearms. I truly feel for our military.
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But they'll have their misconduct complaints investigated and heard in civilian courts. Plus turning in their C7's for hand sanitizer so there is that.
 
Just that they meet the specifications, so the government can claim a fair selection process when they inevitably pick the P320.
 
Undergiver said:
You would not believe how many officers cannot even install the barrel on the HP. I show them once take it out have them do it for themselves and they still have difficulty. Lack of training is a big factor, some reach the rank of Capt and still never even fired the 9mm.
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i was watch a pistol famil ( TOATTs) at the unit... first serial through.

to unload
-remove the magazine
-#### the slide to the rear, and lock the slide
-observe the chamber
-reinsert the magazine and allow the action to go forward
-pull the triger

10 people procede to practise this.....

i approach the Mclp... take him asside, out of view, show him how he just instructed everyone to ND the pistol... he goes back.. reteaches it...
8out of 10 people locked confused because they don't understand the difference in the order....

Go service Bn

i wouldn't want a glock, i thick off all the snags on gear and triggers ive had in the field tromping through the bush.
and i sure don't want all the nuptees that get pistols walking around without safeties.
all the other options are good pistols.

nitroxace said:
With Sock Boys infatuation with China I can see everyone being issued Norincos.
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at leaste they go bang everytime and can hold a full count of amo in the mags without jamming.
 
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In case anyone missed it, the pistol replacement has been cancelled (again) in order to redo the tender in such a way as to not hurt Rampart's feelings.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/dnd-replacement-program-for-second-world-war-era-pistols-delayed-once-again

This is beyond a joke at this point. Bullsh*t like this only hurts the people who have to continue carrying the clapped-out Hi-Power. This should have been a simple off-the-shelf purchase; we could have picked practically any modern duty pistol and been totally fine. Instead we're back to square one yet again.

At this point, I hope Rampart / Glock don't actually win the revised tender for the GSP just because they're being such bad sports about the whole thing.

/end rant
 
Milofficer said:
In case anyone missed it, the pistol replacement has been cancelled (again) in order to redo the tender in such a way as to not hurt Rampart's feelings.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/dnd-replacement-program-for-second-world-war-era-pistols-delayed-once-again

This is beyond a joke at this point. Bullsh*t like this only hurts the people who have to continue carrying the clapped-out Hi-Power. This should have been a simple off-the-shelf purchase; we could have picked practically any modern duty pistol and been totally fine. Instead we're back to square one yet again.

At this point, I hope Rampart / Glock don't actually win the revised tender for the GSP just because they're being such bad sports about the whole thing.

/end rant
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Check yourself there buds. I dont care about glocks at all but Glock and Rampart absolutely did the right thing by challenging this BS and unfair tender.

Its not industries fault that canadian procurement is broken but neither the soldiers nor the taxpayers are served by letting military procurement officers run amok and conduct unfair tenders. Just ask any soldier if they were happy with the LSVW. Or their load bearing vest. Or any of the issued boots in the last ten years.

I suspect you didnt read the tender but it was a mess and the resulting contract would have been a mess delivery would have been a mess and inservice support would have been a mess.

Bad tenders almost always lead to bad projects and even if glock eventually loses and sig eventually wins its better for everyone if the idiots who wrote that tender are fired and someone competent starts over.
 
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Cameron SS said:
....

Its not industries fault that Canadian procurement is broken but neither the soldiers nor the taxpayers are served by letting military procurement officers run amok and conduct unfair tenders. Just ask any soldier if they were happy with the LSVW. Or their load bearing vest. Or any of the issued boots in the last ten years...
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And those examples are just the obvious ones!
 
So the Glock fan boys get another chance to champion their cause that nobody in government will care about. The Sig 320 is what the CF are going to get. Why because our neighbours to the south are going to be grinding big time when they lose the fighter jet contract to Sweden.

The only one happy about this cancellation is Glock and Trudeau. The latter is not in any hurry to spend a dime on the armed forces that he can delay for another day. I am surprised if he doesn't have a plan to use parts from the AR's he grabs from civilians to supplement any gaps in the local Army warehouse.

Take Care

Bob
ps By the time this contract gets filled Glock will be on their Gen 7 pistols.
 
Canuck44 said:
So the Glock fan boys get another chance to champion their cause that nobody in government will care about. The Sig 320 is what the CF are going to get. Why because our neighbours to the south are going to be grinding big time when they lose the fighter jet contract to Sweden.

The only one happy about this cancellation is Glock and Trudeau. The latter is not in any hurry to spend a dime on the armed forces that he can delay for another day. I am surprised if he doesn't have a plan to use parts from the AR's he grabs from civilians to supplement any gaps in the local Army warehouse.

Take Care

Bob
ps By the time this contract gets filled Glock will be on their Gen 7 pistols.
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Trudeau probably doesnt' even know the CAF needs pistols, and wouldn't have a clue what to say about the cancellation until someone told him.

The thing trudeau knows how to do, and is actually good at, is spending government money. Spending money on pistols is probably a take it or leave it situation that he couldn't care less about. His only question would probably be why the handguns aren't being made in Quebec by SNC Lavalin.

As for handguns vs fighter gets. There are several orders of magnitude difference between buying handguns for a military force smaller than the New York City police department, and buying jets that don't work from a US conglomerate of tech companies that has grown too big to fail, even if they have never succeeded from the outset.

Biden couldnt' care less about whether Canada buys F35s or not. The US protectionist state department is shutting Canada out of US trade and whether we buy new monuments for our CAF Bases in the shape of an F35 or not won't make the slightest difference.

As for using parts from ARs in a gun grab, that is just absurd.
 
Difference between US and Canada:
US Army writes RFP for handguns, gets immediately challenged and thrown out....it's the US Army's RFP....not the company who lost and wanted to win.
Canadian Forces writes RFP for handguns, gets immediately challenged and the challenge is upheld as "unfair".....maybe Rampart should write the RFP for the Canadian Forces and tell them what they want.
So what we essentially have is an outside body dictating to the CF what they can and can't have in their own written requirements for handguns.

Rich

PS: Every "Near-Peer" and want to be "Near-Peer" in the world is frantically trying to develop and copy the Fifth Generation F35 Combat Aircraft....gee I wonder why....if it's such a bad, awful plane? The truth is in a contested airspace anything that goes up against the F35 will die quickly.
 
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