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Rick65Cat

Rick65Cat

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I am very seriously looking at getting into reloading for my .204. I am in the process of reading my first book, "ABCs of reloading" (7th edition) by Bill Chevalier.
I suppose if I read more books, it would answer my question but I figure I can fast track by asking here :)
I was reading the load page on Hodgdon's web site from a sticky here...
theres 6 different powder choices for the 32 grain Vmax.
Now comes the question...Why do some powders produce more ft/sec velocity and pressure with LESS powder?
Heres what I mean...Using the 32 gr. hornady Vmax
25.5 gr of H322 gives a (starting load) pressure of 48,300 PSI at 3826 ft/sec
and yet, 27 gr of H4895 gives just (starting load) 40,500 PSI at 3669 ft/sec
Hows a guy determine what powder to buy?
 
Generally a guy buys whatever gives him the performance he wants and uses the least powder. I reload for my 6.5x55 for example, and wanted 2700 fps with 140g SST's; I had five powders that could to that so I picked the one that used the least powder to get the job done. That means more loaded cartridges per pound of powder. Some powders may give better accuracy with your rifle, but going for the powder that gives you the most loads per pound is usually what guys do. For your example, I'd definitely go with the H322; less powder and more power.
 
loading

Rick with the 204 ruger I went to the Hornady 7th edition and went with their recommendations. I just happened to have some Win 748 and they have data for it in both 32 and 40 and the 45 grain bullets.
I loaded up 25 32 gr and 25 40 grain, and they shot well out of my ruger 77.
Some of the other powders that they recomend are Reloader 15, Benchmark, H 4895, IMR 4064.
In my limited reloading exp, I try to buy powders that can be used in a variety of calibers that I have.
If you would like to try a small amount of 748 I can give you some, rather than buying a pound. FS
 
Rick65Cat said:
Now comes the question...Why do some powders produce more ft/sec velocity and pressure with LESS powder?
Heres what I mean...Using the 32 gr. hornady Vmax
25.5 gr of H322 gives a (starting load) pressure of 48,300 PSI at 3826 ft/sec
and yet, 27 gr of H4895 gives just (starting load) 40,500 PSI at 3669 ft/sec
Click to expand...

Not trying to hijack, just to continue in the same direction. Why do some powders give more velocity with LESS pressure? It's something I've been wondering for about ever since I got into reloading.
 
17asleep said:
Not trying to hijack, just to continue in the same direction. Why do some powders give more velocity with LESS pressure? It's something I've been wondering for about ever since I got into reloading.
Click to expand...

It has to do with how fast a given powder reaches peak pressure.

With a slower powder, the bullet starts to move before the powder reaches peak pressure. If the bullet is part way down the barrel, the area of the chamber is effectively increased before the peak occurs.

The above is a very simplified answer to a complex question. Hope it helps.:)
 
Thanks for the offer Greg, I have no equipment yet, just doing the basics in studying up before commiting. I have to seriously consider how much I'll be shooting the .204 as to whether or not to buy ammo or reload ammo. I guess I could reload my .44 magnum as well and my 6.5x55 and maybe some .308 for my new M-14 when it arrives. I'm thinking the M-14 might be primarily a deer gun. Who knows.
One intersting fact I read was that (And I quote).....
"Velocities of just over 4000 fps are the maximum practical velocities that can be expected to produce a reasonable barrel life. A span of a 1000 shots at the very least before accuracy degrades to a marked degree"
....Only a 1000 shots????? :eek: The factory ammo I use now rips out at 4225 fps!!! WTH? If all thing work out, I plan on doing some serious gopher hunting with this gun. I could do 1000 shots in two summers. If I continue with the factory Hornady 32gr. Vmax ammo, does that mean a re-barrel in only two or three years?
 
The .204 Ruger is notoriously hard on barrels as is the 22-250 due to their high velocities. But they are devastating to gophers.

If you can keep the velocity down and still get good groups then you should be able to get a few more than 1000 rounds down her.

Nobody said shooting was cheap :D

Another good option for gophers with long barrel life and cheap ammo is a .223. With 40-55grn ballistic tip bullets and Varget powder running around 3000-3100fps you should get 3000-5000 rounds before accuracy goes for a ####.

If you want maximum Gopher Aerobatics, stick with the Ruger. If your content with medium Aerobatics go with a .223
 
The new Hornady reloading kit is $375.00 plus die sets at $34.00. I think RCBS makes a kit with a slightly smaller press for less money. There alot of places in the USA that have loading gear that can be shipped to Canada, Natchez is one that I looked at. Their Lee pricing is very inexpensive compared to Alberta. The have a Centennial or a kit with a name simular to that that is a real bargain. You should check it out Rick, FS
 
The .204 Ruger is notoriously hard on barrels as is the 22-250 due to their high velocities. But they are devastating to gophers.

If you can keep the velocity down and still get good groups then you should be able to get a few more than 1000 rounds down her.

Nobody said shooting was cheap

Another good option for gophers with long barrel life and cheap ammo is a .223. With 40-55grn ballistic tip bullets and Varget powder running around 3000-3100fps you should get 3000-5000 rounds before accuracy goes for a s**t.

If you want maximum Gopher Aerobatics, stick with the Ruger. If your content with medium Aerobatics go with a .223
Click to expand...

JEEZE!!!!
I just bought this rifle last summer. If I had known it was gonna be that hard on a barrel I would have considered something else.
(Wonder how much a Ruger 26" heavy barrel is worth?)
 
Don't be so hard on yourself, the .204 is definitely on, or near, the top of my want list for the very same purpose as you. I personally like to take 3 or 4 rifles to the fields just so I am not heating up one barrel all day, they need time to cool while you shoot another rifle/caliber.

Gopher Arsenal

Marlin .17HM2
Savage LRPV .223
Remington 600 action with the barrel off a Rem XR-100 in 22-250
and my target 6BR seen Here

Maybe look at a Stevens .223 (nice and accurate and fairly inexpensive) as a partner to the .204
 
Don't be so hard on yourself, the .204 is definitely on, or near, the top of my want list for the very same purpose as you. I personally like to take 3 or 4 rifles to the fields just so I am not heating up one barrel all day, they need time to cool while you shoot another rifle/caliber.

Gopher Arsenal

Marlin .17HM2
Savage LRPV .223
Remington 600 action with the barrel off a Rem XR-100 in 22-250
and my target 6BR seen Here

Maybe look at a Stevens .223 (nice and accurate and fairly inexpensive) as a partner to the .204
Click to expand...

Well lets see...i took the following to the gopher killing fields last summer...

Ruger M77 MKII *target* in .204 w/ Bushnell Elite 3200 4-12x40
Sks in a dragunov stock with a Tasco 6-24x40 scope on it..(total POS)
Squires Bingham M20 .22 w/ 30 rnd clip and a Bell 4x40 scope
Mossburg Mod. 590A 12 ga.

Never depended on 1 gun.

Next year the .204 goes out with a new Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x40
The Tasco is on my new 10/22 (which I hope gets FTF issues worked out)
The Squires will keep the 4x Bell since it works so damn well.
The 4-12x40....not sure yet. Maybe a new varmint gun :cool: Maybe a .223 or .243
My (still to come) Marstar M-14 will be my big game rifle with my 6.5x55 as a backup.
I gotta buy another friggen gun cabinet....
 
Where can I buy a data manual for reloading? Every gun store website I've been on here in Edmonton doesn't list any in their book sections.
I did find a link to Hodgson's data page from a sticky here, but I'd like to have a hard copy at my disposal.
 
CyaN1de said:
The .204 Ruger is notoriously hard on barrels as is the 22-250 due to their high velocities. But they are devastating to gophers.

If you can keep the velocity down and still get good groups then you should be able to get a few more than 1000 rounds down her.

Nobody said shooting was cheap :D

Another good option for gophers with long barrel life and cheap ammo is a .223. With 40-55grn ballistic tip bullets and Varget powder running around 3000-3100fps you should get 3000-5000 rounds before accuracy goes for a s**t.

If you want maximum Gopher Aerobatics, stick with the Ruger. If your content with medium Aerobatics go with a .223
Click to expand...


204 hard on barrels??? Not sure where your info comes from. A 204 uses a 1/3 less powder than a 22-250 and produces less pressure. Less pressure and less powder burnt therefore less damage to the barrel. Barrel longevity with the 204 will be similar to the 223. I know of several 204 owners that have in excess of 4000 rounds down the tube and their barrels are fine.
 
Rick P&D has the Hornady manual, the New Nosler 6th manual, the Sierra manual, the Lyman Manual, the Barnes manual.
I have all of these and am going to the Dominican Republic for a week if you would like to borrow them. FS
 
The other thing that will effect my choice of which powder to use is the availability of it. i usually accomplish this with a visit to my local store and disussing with them what a good load is and what is regularly available.
 
Dunno why, except that the ammo I use is Hornady...but I think I'll go with the Hornady manual. This is more for the .204 although I might eventually load for the .44 magnum. I still have lots of 240 grain shells though so it will be a while. (prolly about 400 shells).
I'm thinking just an inexpensive single stage press as I'll probably be reloading a 100 bullets at a time for the .204
 
Gube204 said:
204 hard on barrels??? Not sure where your info comes from. A 204 uses a 1/3 less powder than a 22-250 and produces less pressure. Less pressure and less powder burnt therefore less damage to the barrel. Barrel longevity with the 204 will be similar to the 223. I know of several 204 owners that have in excess of 4000 rounds down the tube and their barrels are fine.
Click to expand...

Well you may not burn out your throat as fast, but the wear in the barrel will come from the velocity of the bullet traveling down the barrel. There is no way to determine the EXACT number of shots that you will get from a barrel but as the OP was told before that 1000 rounds is a good approximation of the number of rounds he should get before accuracy starts to suffer. Do some searching on this site and you will see the general consensus is that you will be replacing the barrel on a .204 before you would a .223.

Do your friends own Lapped Match barrels or are those stock barrels? You would probably get more rounds from a lapped match barrel made by a good barrel maker than you would a stock barrel due to the smoother bore. Add moly to the equation and add more to that number.

(204 Ruger) 40 GR. HDY V-MAX Varget .204...26.0...44,100...28.1C...55,100
(22-250) ....40 GR. NOS BT ......Varget .224...37.5...43,400...39.5.....51,100
(.223) .......40 GR. NOS BT ........Varget .224...25.0...34,400...28.0C...47,200

How you figure you get less pressures due to lower loads is beyond me. The data above (from hodgdon website) shows that the .204 has higher pressure, with same weight bullet and same powder, than the 22-250 and the .223
 
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My mistake in regards to "pressure". Here is a tidbit of info from the 204 site from a very knowledgable fella in regards to lfe expectancy. Basically don't go crazy in a p-dog field (don't overheat) and keep your barrel clean.
A quote from Rick
"From what I've read (my 204 has just under 900 rounds now....) the expected barrel life from a properly cared for 204 barrel should be roughly the same as a 223 Rem, all things being equal.

The reasons are case capacity vs. bullet speed, bearing surface in regard to diameter, and case design overall. Can't be more specific than that, and again, that is just from reading.

The 22-250 uses roughly 10 grains more powder (which in this case would be a whopping 30%), larger bullet, which equals more bearing surface for about equal speed. The amount of powder used in a case appears to be porportional to the amount of throat erosion when bore diameter is concerned, as evidenced by the Swift if not properly cared for (heat & cleaning procedures).

We've all read the gloom and doom writings from the "old days" in regard to the Swift, yet we all know now, that if not machine-gunned, cleaned regularly, and using sane loads, a Swift barrel could last a lifetime as long as you don't take it into the PD or squirrel patch and use it as your primary weapon.

I'd guess that in a couple more years, with more of us using the 204, we'll have a much better idea of actual 204 barrel life in the real world. But for now, figure it's about the same as your pet .223.

_________________
Semper Fi
Rick in Oregon
NRA Life/OHA/VHA
 
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Powder available

Walter Hornby said:
The other thing that will effect my choice of which powder to use is the availability of it. i usually accomplish this with a visit to my local store and disussing with them what a good load is and what is regularly available.
Click to expand...

So, the store owner/clerk just thinks of a powder he has a surplus of, and guess what? He comes up with a great load for you!!
 
I was kinda hoping to use the .204 for P'doggin for about 75 to 100 shots over a one day shoot. I will be taking my hi-cap magged .22 auto loaders as well...but the "Giggle Factor" watching gophers detonate with the .204 is sooooo hard to replace with a simple .22 HP :D
I was also tossin around the idea of buying a .223 to use as well. Or I could make up a light varmint load for my 1913 6.5x55 swedish. Gawd...decisions decisions :rolleyes:
 
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