Any Truth To This Story

This

“The handgun replacement project has been seen by some as an example of a highly dysfunctional Canadian military procurement system.”

is especially true
 
No expert here, as I've never carried a firearm with intent. But if I had to... I would probably want to carry a polymer pistol. Let's face it pistols are only good for "fighting your way back to the rifle that you'd never should have set down in the first place"
 
The Wizard said:
High Power Pistol Just Won't Fade Away
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/01/why-old-browning-hi-power-pistol-just-wont-fade-away/
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Yeah whats missing from that story is an acknowelgement that the fleet of brownings is in utter disrepair, spares are almost entirely exhausted, and many units stopped training with the browning years ago due to a lack of sufficient pistols, and difficulty procuring ammo. Its not that CAF get to hold on their tried and true Brownings a while longer, but have to suffer with not having an effective pistol at all.

Part of the problem with the entire pistol replacement project is that within CAF, pistols are probably the most neglected and least understood weapon system in the fleet.

There are many generals and senior officers who still think that Pistols are to be adorned upon commanders as a symbol of authority like a modern day cutlass. Also commonly carried by PONTIs who can't abide the inconvenience of having to carry a long gun.
 
pistols are probably the most neglected and least understood weapon system in the fleet
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I remember the Hi Power's being picked out of a box when issued out and then thrown back into the box all together when turned back in. It is a testament to their robustness that they worked and I don't ever remember having a malfunction with one on the range given the neglect.
 
Cameron SS said:
Yeah whats missing from that story is an acknowelgement that the fleet of brownings is in utter disrepair, spares are almost entirely exhausted, and many units stopped training with the browning years ago due to a lack of sufficient pistols, and difficulty procuring ammo. Its not that CAF get to hold on their tried and true Brownings a while longer, but have to suffer with not having an effective pistol at all.

Part of the problem with the entire pistol replacement project is that within CAF, pistols are probably the most neglected and least understood weapon system in the fleet.

There are many generals and senior officers who still think that Pistols are to be adorned upon commanders as a symbol of authority like a modern day cutlass. Also commonly carried by PONTIs who can't abide the inconvenience of having to carry a long gun.
Click to expand...

Robbs said:
I remember the Hi Power's being picked out of a box when issued out and then thrown back into the box all together when turned back in. It is a testament to their robustness that they worked and I don't ever remember having a malfunction with one on the range given the neglect.
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Having been an MP and having carried and used the BHP extensively I found the the gun itself was very good.

The problems with the malfunctions and jams (and they were plentiful) had to do with crappy or damaged magazines and poor quality ammo. I can recall on the range finding bullets stuck in the cardboard of the regular combat target that hadn't penetrated completely through. Many a time the ammo didn't have enough power to fully cycle the action.

As we had to depend on these guns to a much bigger extent then anyone else, we used to hand pick our magazines and test them to insure that they would function; any that didn't were returned.

With good mags and ammo, these guns functioned quite well.
 
highlander said:
Having been an MP and having carried and used the BHP extensively I found the the gun itself was very good.

The problems with the malfunctions and jams (and they were plentiful) had to do with crappy or damaged magazines and poor quality ammo. I can recall on the range finding bullets stuck in the cardboard of the regular combat target that hadn't penetrated completely through. Many a time the ammo didn't have enough power to fully cycle the action.

As we had to depend on these guns to a much bigger extent then anyone else, we used to hand pick our magazines and test them to insure that they would function; any that didn't were returned.

With good mags and ammo, these guns functioned quite well.
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People experience differ. I shot some that worked, some that were soo worn out, you could give it to a baby as a rattle. But they need to go, they're a embarrassment when Canada shooting match and most of them break, or fail. Reserves are worst as they just hand you one. What they did overseas with me, Oh here is a BHP.. Does it work? Dunno... as wasn't able to test it.
 
I'm curious. Did anyone ever have a wpns tech change out or adjust the front when the pistol was issued to you for an extended period of time, like deployment?
I never had, despite that being part of the sight in procedure.
 
recce said:
I'm curious. Did anyone ever have a wpns tech change out or adjust the front when the pistol was issued to you for an extended period of time, like deployment?
I never had, despite that being part of the sight in procedure.
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Can't say I have.. Maybe the pistols assigned for the unit shooting team.
 
OkayShooter said:
People experience differ. I shot some that worked, some that were soo worn out, you could give it to a baby as a rattle. But they need to go, they're a embarrassment when Canada shooting match and most of them break, or fail. Reserves are worst as they just hand you one. What they did overseas with me, Oh here is a BHP.. Does it work? Dunno... as wasn't able to test it.
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Yep, no question about that.
 
recce said:
I'm curious. Did anyone ever have a wpns tech change out or adjust the front when the pistol was issued to you for an extended period of time, like deployment?
I never had, despite that being part of the sight in procedure.
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I carried one for 8 months. Test fired at 25 m at KAF before kicking out. Didn't have an issue with sight alignment or sight height. Rummaged through a bin of magazines to find 8 new ones that worked. We had a range at our FOB, so was able to test fire and do some drills at least once a month or so.
 
tokguy said:
No expert here, as I've never carried a firearm with intent. But if I had to... I would probably want to carry a polymer pistol. Let's face it pistols are only good for "fighting your way back to the rifle that you'd never should have set down in the first place"
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I dunno about that. the Russian special forces were trained to shoot the Tokarev 300 yards. there is a good video out about it.
never doubt the distance & accuracy of a pistol in trained hands. It will surprise you.
I can hit the 100 yard mark with accuracy, and 200 with my scoped 357 magnum.
I have zero interest in shooting 25 or 50 yards. I can shoot my hand guns with more accuracy than most people can shoot their rifles at the range. They cant believe how good I am, and I cant believe how crappy they are, LOL
 
When I trained at CFSEME around 92', we were told that there were roughly 30,000 hi powers in storage new and refurbed (Chinese contract that had the rear leaf sight milled off and a fixed rear sight silver soldered on). But that was a different lifetime ago.
 
Pblatzz said:
When I trained at CFSEME around 92', we were told that there were roughly 30,000 hi powers in storage new and refurbed (Chinese contract that had the rear leaf sight milled off and a fixed rear sight silver soldered on). But that was a different lifetime ago.
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There was one of those Chinese guns at the armour school 2005-2008 time frame, may still be there. It still had the Chinese script too. I've got a pic somewhere.
 
recce said:
There was one of those Chinese guns at the armour school 2005-2008 time frame, may still be there. It still had the Chinese script too. I've got a pic somewhere.
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A picture would be awesome. Something Canada is known for: Re-cycle, Re-build, Re-issue...We make it our own..

To add..30K pistols in stock would mean 1000 per units issued NOS for the last 30 years. This doesn't include pistols in service that could be refurbed with existing parts in stock or taken out of service and parted out with components that are within spec..
 
well I've done 3 deployments now where my only issued weapon was a BHp so it was sort of important to check all the pistols for functonability

mags are the biggest problem, and using your mag as a bottle opener is the fastest way to bugger up a mag.
 
lone ranger said:
I dunno about that. the Russian special forces were trained to shoot the Tokarev 300 yards. there is a good video out about it.
never doubt the distance & accuracy of a pistol in trained hands. It will surprise you.
I can hit the 100 yard mark with accuracy, and 200 with my scoped 357 magnum.
I have zero interest in shooting 25 or 50 yards. I can shoot my hand guns with more accuracy than most people can shoot their rifles at the range. They cant believe how good I am, and I cant believe how crappy they are, LOL
Click to expand...

I can remember as a youth shooting across a coulee with a Ruger Mk 1... target pistol mind you. Love reading Keith as well... so long shots are doable.
But for your average fella? Maybe don't drop your carbine... it will serve you better than your sidearm.
 
tokguy said:
I can remember as a youth shooting across a coulee with a Ruger Mk 1... target pistol mind you. Love reading Keith as well... so long shots are doable.
But for your average fella? Maybe don't drop your carbine... it will serve you better than your sidearm.
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Pistols can be extremely accurate. Alot of the myth has to that is the Police and LE have pistols with very heavy trigger, or they're DAO, which as we know, heavy trigger hinders accuracy.

I shoot PPC and we have often a team with DAO Sigs. First year I chuckled at the low scores. Then I realized 11# triggers. My LEO buddy, choses his carbine more than his pistol, as it's more accurate, again... DAO.

Then again most sport shooters get more range time..
 
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