Reloading 8mm Ordnance?

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FARMHANDYO

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Hi everyone,

I have been looking for some information on reloading 8mm Ordnance for a while now. I know that there must be people out there loading for it. However there seems to be no info on loading for it other than one recipe when using bullseye powder, which I don't have at hand.

I plan on using a 100-120 grain bullet and would like to reach the standard 700 FPS velocity that the original round had.

Do any of you have any loads that work well for you?

The powders I have access to are W-231 (preferred) and trailboss. I can use others as well if they are available.

Thx
 
I load 3.5gr of Unique behind a 106gr lead round nose powder coated bullet. Works great. Trail Boss would be fine too but I don't have a load on hand for it. General rule for trail boss is just don't compress the powder at all and your fine. I would not use W231. Bit spicy for that caliber. The low charge you would have to use would probably cause squibs. I would trust tite group over W231 as it does better with low charges.

Cheers
Moe
 
Thanks for the help guys. I will see if I can get my hands on some Unique. I feel like trail boss won’t be able to achieve that 700fps velocity.
 
FARMHANDYO said:
Thanks for the help guys. I will see if I can get my hands on some Unique. I feel like trail boss won’t be able to achieve that 700fps velocity.
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In creating your own data it's very helpful to understand and use burn rate charts and a chronograph.

Trailboss is a quite fast burning powder a little slower than 231 or titegroup but faster than unique. It's fairly easy to work up light loads with trailboss because it is made very bulky and the manufacturer published a formula for using it without load data but I believe they specifically say it's for use in modern guns. It should easily get your 700fps. Are you using a chronograph?

Unique is rumoured to have a pressure curve similar to black powder and therefore isn't supposed to be too hard on older or weaker guns. At the same time it often leaves some unburned powder behind.

Haven't gotten to measure the Fps of these loads yet but worked them up a couple years ago using soft cast 120gr bullets. 3.0gr of unique felt good but didn't fully expand the cases so worked up to 3.4gr.
Trailboss I'm using 2.8-3gr which is starting to feel fairly sharp so will not go higher until I do get them on the chrony.
 
The French used a powder that was very close in shape and quickness to "Unique" with similar bullet weights.

Some folks use 3.5 grains of Unique

Another load used is 2.2 grains of Bullseye.

These loads would be mild, which is what you would want for antique pistols.

Winchester 231 is slower than Bullseye and about 10% faster than Unique, so it's in the right burn rate range.

So, appx 3.0 grains of W231 should be a good place to start. Just remember, with powders this fast, pressures spike very quickly.

Are you using it in a Belgian knock off or a French military 1892 issue pistol

The original loading for that cartridge, for that pistol was Black Powder 12.2 grains.

Later they went to a smokeless powder called poudre B with 4.6 grains.
 
bearhunter said:
The French used a powder that was very close in shape and quickness to "Unique" with similar bullet weights.

Some folks use 3.5 grains of Unique

Another load used is 2.2 grains of Bullseye.

These loads would be mild, which is what you would want for antique pistols.

Winchester 231 is slower than Bullseye and about 10% faster than Unique, so it's in the right burn rate range.

So, appx 3.0 grains of W231 should be a good place to start. Just remember, with powders this fast, pressures spike very quickly.

Are you using it in a Belgian knock off or a French military 1892 issue pistol

The original loading for that cartridge, for that pistol was Black Powder 12.2 grains.

Later they went to a smokeless powder called poudre B with 4.6 grains.
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It is an antique Model 1892 pistol that is in almost mint condition with fantastic lock work and lockup.
 
I'd highly recommending slugging your bore and measuring your cylinder mouths before buying a mold or ordering plated bullets. I discovered my 1892 has a remarkably tight bore and will squib the commercially plated bullets at any powder charge.
 
The only bullets I am going to buy will be soft lead bullets from Jet Bullets. It’s the cheapest option anyways and is easy on the bore.
 
On one other note I am extremely surprised that I cannot find any 8mm French Ordnance dies around. If any of you know of a source please let me know!
 
FARMHANDYO said:
On one other note I am extremely surprised that I cannot find any 8mm French Ordnance dies around. If any of you know of a source please let me know!
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Have you tried European sources. Especially out of Ukraine or Czechoslovakia???

You may have to custom order from Redding or RCBS, which won't be cheap.

You might be able to use 32acp or 32S&W Long dies as their dimensions are very close.

How much experience do you have with hand loading????

I can see you're being careful, but even though those old pistols look to be and usually are very well made, the metallurgy isn't up to modern standards.

One thing to remember, the loads developed for those pistols wasn't meant for instant lethality. They were meant to disable the adversary first and a coup de gras issued later, if required.

Trying to get more out of them, which doesn't seem to be your goal, is not realistic and often not doable.
 
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bearhunter said:
Have you tried European sources. Especially out of Ukraine or Czechoslovakia???

You may have to custom order from Redding or RCBS, which won't be cheap.
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I could. I am hoping that one of you guys has a set somewhere. The government prices in Europe are so expensive that I think getting custom dies from RCBS would be the same cost or even cheaper.
 
Actually I have 32 smith and wesson long dies by RCBS. I am afraid of damaging the brass however. How close are the two cartridges? Anyone have experience using 32 smith and wesson long brass for 8mm ordnance? I reload for 11mm French as well. For the model 1873 revolver so I have good reloading experience and 577/450. I can’t believe that the dies are non existent for this cartridge. There are many of these revolvers in the states.
 
I looked up the dimensions a couple of nights ago. The 8 base is larger than the 32 s/w but neck dimensions are close enough. You would have to set the 32 die up to neck size. Don’t try resizing the base. You should be able to get a few reloads out of the cases before the base would need resizing. I am currently trying to find die sets for three of my rifles. 8x60R , 8x50R and 6.5x54 m/s. The first two cases need to be reformed from other cases. They are fire formed to the chamber and am currently using a neck sizing die. I can’t see why it couldn’t be done with pistol brass also.
 
The 8mm ordinance is about a .330" bullet and the various 32's are more like .311-.314". It's a bit of a difference so might work in a pinch but I think you will have issues seating the larger bullets. They will likely get caught up on the crimp ring in the seating die.

My set of dies are Hornady and I don't remember where I got them. It's probably a special order item and being oddball might take quite a while to get.

CH4D and Buffalo Arms might be places to try otherwise find dealers that do lots of custom order work such as Mystic might have some idea when they can get them.
 
I am surprised it was very easy for me to get 11mm French revolver dies but this modern revolver made up until the 1920s has no dies anywhere. I am pretty surprised. I hope that someone has a set. I sent and email to Lee Precision, RCBS and CH4D. Hopefully I can get something. I would think that this cartridge would be popular. Lots of these revolvers are in the US in great shape.
 
Got an email from RCBS today:

"RCBS Closed its special order shop and custom shop in June of 2017 due to lack of sales and market conditions. We no longer make dies in that caliber. "
 
C & H are my go to guys for rare dies.
I've got a handful of Star line 32-20 brass with split necks.
Figured one of you folks might be able to use them... a fellow told me they were of no help...other folks say they are good.
Got a good handful of old 32 CF cartridges too.
Someone take them before I have to buy one of these revolvers...please:)
 
FARMHANDYO said:
I could. I am hoping that one of you guys has a set somewhere. The government prices in Europe are so expensive that I think getting custom dies from RCBS would be the same cost or even cheaper.
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They're usually about half the price. I get new reamers out of Czechoslovakia, via Ebay, for less than half of what I can source them for, delivered in North America.

I believe the bullets for your cartridge are "heeled" with to keep all of the diameters the same in the cylinder.

I have a Webley and another antique that require the use of heeled bullets.
 
8mm is a standard inside lubed cartridge and easy to load. Heeled bullets are another level of challenge in the crimping department.

Thanks for the suggestions on finding European reamers bearhunter. I'm slowly learning my way around my lathe and was wondering about finding reamers.
 
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