Info wanted for Federal Hi-Shok/Hi-Power 257 Roberts +P 117Gr Soft Point
- Thread starter new
- Start date
No clock thing, but there was an ever so small 1985!
- Location
- Western Manitoba
257 Roberts was introduced commercially by Remington in 1934 - ish (?) 54,000 psi MAP. The +P version was introduced by Winchester in late 1980's at 58,000 psi MAP. So far as I can find, R-P never did produce a +P head stamped brass. +P brass is smaller inside volume than "regular" 257 Roberts brass. So your ammo, at best, is from at least "late 1980's" - I could not find a specific year that 257 Roberts +P was introduced.
I saved and printed this out a few years back as it was helpful in identifying some older boxes of Federal ammo acquired over the years...someone had posted this on the internet a while back. I have used these parameters to identify ammo from 1998, 2007, 2012 and 2016. But the lot number standards goes much further back than that. Hopefully it may help identify your ammo's year of manufacture (I am sending this as a general piece of information - I see the OP identified his/hers as 1985).
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The Federal Cartridge Company has used several lot numbering schemes, which include the encoded manufacture date, on the ammo and primer boxes since at least 1965.
I. 2004-present (2009)
The format is ###L###, where # is a digit and L is a letter. The letter is the year:
H = 2004
Y = 2005
R = 2006
V = 2007
W = 2008
Z = 2009
The digits following the letter are the Julian day plus 400. In the Julian system (a one-up numbering of days 1 thru 365/366) 1 January is day 1, 31 January is day 31, 2 February is day 32, 31 December is day 365, or 366 in a leap year.
The very first number probably is the work shift, numbered 1 thru 3. Occasionally a letter is found in this position, I don't know what it equates to. The next two digits are the production line:
10 = 38 Special
11 = 40 S&W
13 = 44 Magnum
16 =357 Magnum
17 = 38 Special
22 = 9mm Luger
23 = 9mm Luger
24 = 9mm Luger
25 = 45 Auto
26 = 45 Auto
28 = 45 Auto/380 Auto
38 = 45 Auto
39 = Auto
42 = 40 S&W
43 = 9mm Luger
45 = 40 S&W
46 = 45 Auto
47 = 223 Remington
48 = 40 S&W
Examples:
1 42H527 = 1st shift, 40 S&W line 42, 2004, day 127 (6 May)
3 24Y694 = 3rd shift, 45 Auto line 25, 2005, day 294 (21 Oct)
123R756 = 1st shift, 9mm Luger line 23, 2006, day 356 (22 Dec)
246V431 = 2nd shift, 45 Auto line 46, 2007, day 31 (31 Jan)
U43W689 = U=unknown, 9mm Luger line 43, 2008, day 289 (15 Oct)
117Z429 = 1st shift, 38 Special line 17, 2009, day 29 (29 Jan)
II. 2002-2003
###L### format same as 2004-2009, shift and production line numbers the same, Year N probably = 2002, J = 2003; Julian days without adding 400. Examples:
117J064 = 1st shift, 38 Special line 17, 2003, day 64 (5 Mar)
146N213 = 1st shift, 45 Auto line 46, probably 2002, day 213 (1 Aug)
III. 1994-2001
######L### format, except where letter = X where it is #####L###. Letter is year:
H = 1994
Y = 1995
R = 1996
I speculate V = 1997, based on V = 2007 in 2004-2009.
W = possibly 1998
Z = 1999
T = possibly 2000
X = possibly 2001
The three digits following the letter are the Julian day without adding 400. The very first tow digits are the production line, same as 2004-2009. The next four digits, or 3 in the case of letter=X, I don't know. Examples:
281623H242 = 380 Auto line 28, 1623=unknown, 1994, day 242 (30 Aug)
095018Y326 = 380 Auto line 09, 5018=unknown, 1995, day 326 (22 Nov)
094992Z105 = 380 Auto line 09, 4992=unknown, 1999, day 105 (15 Apr)
IV. 1992
Similar to 1994-2001 except the year, in the 7th position, is a 2 not a letter and 400 has been added to the Julain day. Examples:
2240352720 = 9mm Luger line 22, 4035=unknown, 1992, day 320 (15 Nov)
3846522530 = 45 Auto line 38, 4652=unknown, 1992, day 130 (9 May)
V. 1984-1989
#L-####, ##L-####, or ##-L#### format. First digit or first two digits probably are the production line; line numbers are probably not the same as 1992-2009. Letter is always A or B, probably for 1st and 2nd shifts. First digit after the hyphen is the last digit of the year: 4 = 1984, 9 = 1989. Last three digits are Julian day plus 400. Examples:
5A-4592 = 5=unknown line, 1st shift, 1984, day 192 (10 Jul)
22A-7682 = 9mm Luger line 22, 1st shift, 1987, day 292 (19 Oct)
22-B9469 = 9mm Luger line 22, 2nd shift, 1989, day 69 (10 Mar)
VI. 1975-1982
Same as 1984-1989 except 400 is not added to Julian day.
VII. 1965
My one example from 1965 appears to have the same numbering scheme as 1984-1989.
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And then there is this...
******************
Since 1974, Federal Cartridge Company has used four 10-year lot number schemes to identify the date of manufacture. Beginning in 2014 they started using the newest, the fifth. On commercial production, the last four characters in Federal lot numbers indicate the year and Julian day of manufacture:
1974-1983, the last digit of the year followed by the Julian day.
1984-1993, the last digit of the year followed by the Julian day plus 400.
1994-2003, the letters H, Y, R, V, W, Z, X, T, N, J (in that order) to indicate the year followed by the Julian day.
2004-2013, those same letters followed by the Julian day plus 400.
2014, the letter M followed by the Julian day.
Examples: On a Federal box of 38 Special printed in October 2013, its lot number P 17 J720 equates to P shift, production line 17, year J=2013, Julian day 320 (720 minus 400 = 320), which is 16 November 2013. The same Federal box printed in December 2013 with lot number Q 17 M027 equates to Q shift, production line 17, year M=2014, Julian day 27, which is 27 January 2014.
Regarding shifts, in the early 70’s there was no reference to shift in lot numbers. Later there were two: 1 and 2. Later still three shifts: 1, 2, and 3. Later this was changed to A, B, and C. Presently there are four: P, Q, V, and U. (?Price, Quality, Value, and something that starts with a U?)
**********
Here is also some ballistic information on the .257 Roberts cartridge:
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kn...t is well suited,a muzzle velocity of 2800fps.
Based on the Winchester Olin model of the .257 Roberts +P in 117grain, velocity is around 2780fps
*************
The Federal Cartridge Company has used several lot numbering schemes, which include the encoded manufacture date, on the ammo and primer boxes since at least 1965.
I. 2004-present (2009)
The format is ###L###, where # is a digit and L is a letter. The letter is the year:
H = 2004
Y = 2005
R = 2006
V = 2007
W = 2008
Z = 2009
The digits following the letter are the Julian day plus 400. In the Julian system (a one-up numbering of days 1 thru 365/366) 1 January is day 1, 31 January is day 31, 2 February is day 32, 31 December is day 365, or 366 in a leap year.
The very first number probably is the work shift, numbered 1 thru 3. Occasionally a letter is found in this position, I don't know what it equates to. The next two digits are the production line:
10 = 38 Special
11 = 40 S&W
13 = 44 Magnum
16 =357 Magnum
17 = 38 Special
22 = 9mm Luger
23 = 9mm Luger
24 = 9mm Luger
25 = 45 Auto
26 = 45 Auto
28 = 45 Auto/380 Auto
38 = 45 Auto
39 = Auto
42 = 40 S&W
43 = 9mm Luger
45 = 40 S&W
46 = 45 Auto
47 = 223 Remington
48 = 40 S&W
Examples:
1 42H527 = 1st shift, 40 S&W line 42, 2004, day 127 (6 May)
3 24Y694 = 3rd shift, 45 Auto line 25, 2005, day 294 (21 Oct)
123R756 = 1st shift, 9mm Luger line 23, 2006, day 356 (22 Dec)
246V431 = 2nd shift, 45 Auto line 46, 2007, day 31 (31 Jan)
U43W689 = U=unknown, 9mm Luger line 43, 2008, day 289 (15 Oct)
117Z429 = 1st shift, 38 Special line 17, 2009, day 29 (29 Jan)
II. 2002-2003
###L### format same as 2004-2009, shift and production line numbers the same, Year N probably = 2002, J = 2003; Julian days without adding 400. Examples:
117J064 = 1st shift, 38 Special line 17, 2003, day 64 (5 Mar)
146N213 = 1st shift, 45 Auto line 46, probably 2002, day 213 (1 Aug)
III. 1994-2001
######L### format, except where letter = X where it is #####L###. Letter is year:
H = 1994
Y = 1995
R = 1996
I speculate V = 1997, based on V = 2007 in 2004-2009.
W = possibly 1998
Z = 1999
T = possibly 2000
X = possibly 2001
The three digits following the letter are the Julian day without adding 400. The very first tow digits are the production line, same as 2004-2009. The next four digits, or 3 in the case of letter=X, I don't know. Examples:
281623H242 = 380 Auto line 28, 1623=unknown, 1994, day 242 (30 Aug)
095018Y326 = 380 Auto line 09, 5018=unknown, 1995, day 326 (22 Nov)
094992Z105 = 380 Auto line 09, 4992=unknown, 1999, day 105 (15 Apr)
IV. 1992
Similar to 1994-2001 except the year, in the 7th position, is a 2 not a letter and 400 has been added to the Julain day. Examples:
2240352720 = 9mm Luger line 22, 4035=unknown, 1992, day 320 (15 Nov)
3846522530 = 45 Auto line 38, 4652=unknown, 1992, day 130 (9 May)
V. 1984-1989
#L-####, ##L-####, or ##-L#### format. First digit or first two digits probably are the production line; line numbers are probably not the same as 1992-2009. Letter is always A or B, probably for 1st and 2nd shifts. First digit after the hyphen is the last digit of the year: 4 = 1984, 9 = 1989. Last three digits are Julian day plus 400. Examples:
5A-4592 = 5=unknown line, 1st shift, 1984, day 192 (10 Jul)
22A-7682 = 9mm Luger line 22, 1st shift, 1987, day 292 (19 Oct)
22-B9469 = 9mm Luger line 22, 2nd shift, 1989, day 69 (10 Mar)
VI. 1975-1982
Same as 1984-1989 except 400 is not added to Julian day.
VII. 1965
My one example from 1965 appears to have the same numbering scheme as 1984-1989.
*************
And then there is this...
******************
Since 1974, Federal Cartridge Company has used four 10-year lot number schemes to identify the date of manufacture. Beginning in 2014 they started using the newest, the fifth. On commercial production, the last four characters in Federal lot numbers indicate the year and Julian day of manufacture:
1974-1983, the last digit of the year followed by the Julian day.
1984-1993, the last digit of the year followed by the Julian day plus 400.
1994-2003, the letters H, Y, R, V, W, Z, X, T, N, J (in that order) to indicate the year followed by the Julian day.
2004-2013, those same letters followed by the Julian day plus 400.
2014, the letter M followed by the Julian day.
Examples: On a Federal box of 38 Special printed in October 2013, its lot number P 17 J720 equates to P shift, production line 17, year J=2013, Julian day 320 (720 minus 400 = 320), which is 16 November 2013. The same Federal box printed in December 2013 with lot number Q 17 M027 equates to Q shift, production line 17, year M=2014, Julian day 27, which is 27 January 2014.
Regarding shifts, in the early 70’s there was no reference to shift in lot numbers. Later there were two: 1 and 2. Later still three shifts: 1, 2, and 3. Later this was changed to A, B, and C. Presently there are four: P, Q, V, and U. (?Price, Quality, Value, and something that starts with a U?)
**********
Here is also some ballistic information on the .257 Roberts cartridge:
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kn...t is well suited,a muzzle velocity of 2800fps.
Based on the Winchester Olin model of the .257 Roberts +P in 117grain, velocity is around 2780fps
Last edited:
- Location
- Saskatchewan
In my .257 Rob. Win M70 push feed the velocity of those cartridges would have been about 2750 fps. if I remember correctly. Of course that varies with chamber throat length, barrel length, bore condition, etc. Good deer loads.
