Making your own safe??????

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Allen Gun Works

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I have a urge to build my own safe. I want to go all out and make it as professional as possible. Door pins and the whole bit.

Does anyone know of a book, video or website that has the plans for the internals of a vault door? Also need to know where to by the lock assembly and stuff.

I know this is going to end up being more expensive than buying one. I know it is alot of work. I really want to do this, so any help would be appreciated.

I am looking at working with 1/4" steel for the walls and rectangular tube for the frame. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
Constructing a safe is not a DIY-er project.

Also, "plans for the internals of a vault door" will not help you build a safe. Vault doors and safes are two completely different things. You will have a hard enough time finding specs for safes, let alone a vault door.... Even within the safe & vault industry, vault info is not just given out to anyone. There are only a handful of people in this country with access to the information you asked for.

That being said, I will offer my assistance in any way I can. Safe locks are available on eBay. Other, more hard to find parts like relockers and boltwork I may have lying around my shop and if not, I can order it for you. If you have trouble with a certain part of the build, I can scan relevant parts of my literature, but I'm afraid I can't just scan entire tech bulletins and post them..... :D

Already, I can say that if you are planning on just welding some 1/4" steel onto some framing, you aren't building a safe. You are building a lockable cabinet or strong box, at the most. The easiest way to explain the difference is that a real safe is SOLID... Whether its steel, or composite materials... There are no seems, welds or fasteners on a real safe.

There are safe-building lessons to be learned, and safe mfrs have had 200 years to learn them. It's not as simple as you may first think.

If I can make a suggestion.... Look around at scrapyards for broken safes. A simple ex-government of canada plate safe that needs work can be had VERY cheap. You can then make repairs to the boltwork/door/hinges, replace the lock with one of your choosing, beef up security (add a high quality bit key lock, glass relocker, etc), add shelving and do the cosmetics (paint, etc).

I think you'll be a lot happier with the end product, this way.

Safe restoration is actually a hobby to most locksmith/safe techs... Because you put a LOT of time and money into it, usually its not financially viable to restore safes for resale (the exceptions are antique safes and vault doors).... But its fun and rewarding. I'm actually doing some customization on an Inkas ST-2154 right now... Adding a german high security bit key lock, swapping the group 2 comb lock for a type 1 electronic lock w/biometrics, and a few other neat tricks. Its fun, but time consuming.
 
sogetthis said:
... The easiest way to explain the difference is that a real safe is SOLID... Whether its steel, or composite materials... There are no seems, welds or fasteners on a real safe.

Learn something new every day. If there are no seams, welds or fasteners on a real safe, how are they made? Cast? Forged? Extruded? These are the only processes I can think of that could be used to make a 5 sided box without seams, welds, etc.
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My safe was built to last a 1000 years. It has been bombed, filled with concrete, flooded, etc and it still stands...

Feel free to copy my blue prints :p

 
No offense to sogetthis but you are not building a nuclear bomb. As long as you have a decent welder, drill press, bandsaw, and a bunch of big clamps you should be able to make an acceptable safe. Having said that, its a lot of work.

A safe for handguns only or are you thinking big enough for rifles? If for rifles, have you ever welded anything that big before?

Have all the large pieces of plate steel cut by the steel supplier. I did most of this with a bandsaw. What a pain in the ass.
 
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This would be an interesting project, and the result would certainly be superior to any of the gun lockers on the market.
I suppose that an advantage to a homemade box is that attacking it in the same manner as a commercial unit might not work too well. The cracker would not know with what he was dealing.
Basic framing could be with angle iron, outside and inside, the wall panels being plate, caught between the angles. Any exposed door hinges must not be part of the system keeping the door locked.
The unit could be fabricated near where it would remain, perhaps limiting the amount of moving required.
With gas welding and cutting torches, an arc welder and an abrasive chop saw, a decent unit could be fabricated.
 
Rudy H said:
No offense to sogetthis but you are not building a nuclear bomb. As long as you have a decent welder, drill press, bandsaw, and a bunch of big clamps you should be able to make an acceptable safe. Having said that, its a lot of work.

A safe for handguns only or are you thinking big enough for rifles? If for rifles, have you ever welded anything that big before?

Have all the large pieces of plate steel cut by the steel supplier. I did most of this with a bandsaw. What a pain in the ass.

safe1.jpg


The following I wrote for someone else.
Click to expand...

"No offence", but that's not a safe. That's a lockable cabinet. If you think safe mfrs weld a couple pieces of steel together at the corners, you are sadly misinformed. That container would not survive 10 seconds against the most basic hand tools I could fit in my pocket.

The problem is, that the containers sold at Canadian Tire and Costco have given the general public a misconception on what a "SAFE" is. It's ruining my industry.

Like I said, building a SAFE from scratch is not a DIY'er project. If you want to build a box with a lock on it, by all means go ahead. If you want help fixing up a SAFE, feel free to PM me.

EDIT: Sorry, I had a bad day. Instead of criticizing, I'll do my best to offer some advice. First of all, the distance between bolt center and door face is insufficient. Also, that lip is a very very bad idea, it makes the container incredibly vulnerable to a long screwdriver/small prybar. Relying on a motor to retract your boltwork is also a very bad idea. I guarantee that will be the cause of a lockout before the end of that container's life. Safe mfrs learned that decades ago... The lock and boltwork should be two seperate entities. A lock, and a BOLTWORK CONTROL HANDLE to retract the boltwork is a proven system. Go for shorter, thicker bolts and heavily reinforce the bolt wells. I would also suggest going with a rated safe lock, ie UL Type 1 e-lock instead of something homemade... I can almost guarantee a 9volt battery will spike that lock open. I can't see the hinge pins, but I can almost guarantee they need to be reinforced. Replacement SAFE hinges are available to locksmiths, I would suggest using those. FOUR WAY active boltwork would be a much better set-up than the one way active boltwork you've got there. At the very least, you also need two passive bolts on the hinge side to help against prying (can't see if you've done that). The door should be MUCH THICKER. The lock should be protected by much more than 1/4" of steel. As far as the container itself, I'm sure it is light steel. One sheet of steel is insufficient. It also needs provisions for being tied down, it can't be very heavy...

If you STARTED with those modifications, I would CONSIDER calling it a safe... But right now, from just 1 small picture, I would say something of better quality could be bought at canadian tire and would have saved you a lot of trouble.... I would never store restricteds inside that container without trigger locks... Storing any firearm in a hand built container is not recommended.
 
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A couple of things catch my eye so far; I don't see provision for heat insulation. One of the values of a good safe is that it should allow the contents to survive a house fire. I would think that the walls and door of a good heat resistant safe would incorporate several layers of gyprock or some suitable heat barrier.
Were I building a safe, I would also put a layer of stainless in the door and perhaps exposed sides. Possibly cover it with an outer layer of iron for disguise but the point being that stainless would be very difficult to cut with a torch.
Sogetthis mentioned a glass safe; many safes have a glass plate on the inside so that if you try to drill them, you break the glass and a block drops which jams the mechanism.
A final observation is that the safe should not appear to be one and that there is nothing wrong with a decoy; no one is going to bother breaking into a television set and presumably they will be drawn to a prominent safe as a source of valuables.

cheers mooncoon
 
If you are building the whole safe out of 0.25 inch plate I've got one question- how do you plan on moving it when you are done? A single sheet 4X8 is going to weigh in around the 320# mark. You can build a perfectly secure safe out of lighter material. I built a small handgun vault years ago that I bolt to the floor, the sides and top are made of 0.25 plate and the bottom is made of much lighter gauge plate...and it still weighs in quite heavy.
 
No offense sogetthis but you are a safe snob. ;)

I don't care what you think is a safe or not a safe. I care what the CFO, a judge, and a criminal considers a safe. As far as I'm concerned, based on the law, it's a safe.

mooncoon said:
A couple of things catch my eye so far; I don't see provision for heat insulation.
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:eek: :runaway:

The last thing I want is water absorbing materials near my guns.

No it is not meant to be a fire safe. It is meant to keep criminals from accessing my guns. It is meant to legally store my firearms without trigger locks. For it's intended purpose it is more than adequate.

This safe has been reliable for over ten years now. I design electronics for a living (security electronics for over ten years) and I am not concerned about a potential failure.

There is no way to get a screwdriver to pry open the door because there is not enough clearance. Even if you did you would break or bend it. That is not a way in.

The only practical way to get into it is with an angle grinder and grind your way in. That takes time and my alarm system has only a 15 second delay before it goes into alarm. If you want to try and cut into it you will have company before you get inside.
 
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KodiakII said:
If you are building the whole safe out of 0.25 inch plate I've got one question- how do you plan on moving it when you are done? A single sheet 4X8 is going to weigh in around the 320# mark. You can build a perfectly secure safe out of lighter material. I built a small handgun vault years ago that I bolt to the floor, the sides and top are made of 0.25 plate and the bottom is made of much lighter gauge plate...and it still weighs in quite heavy.
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A similar-sized burglary rated safe would weigh around the 900-1,100 pound mark. Safe moving has always and will always be a specialized job. But you are 100% right... Composite safes are usually FIRE AND BURGLARY rated at 1/2 the weight...

Exactly my point when I say welding a bunch of steel together is not going to make it a real safe. Whether its made of aluminum or kryptonite, there is a lot more to it than just constructing a a square container with a door in it.


mooncoon, about the fire insulation... I was at a lockout a week ago where a gentleman's house had caught fire while he was away. He had his rifles store in a Pro Steel (sometimes marketed as Remington) gun safe that the mfr claimed was rated for 1hr @ 350 degrees. When I got there, the safe was not working because the combination lock was completely melted. I worked my magic and almost crapped myself when I saw his collection. The rifles were completely ruined. Any wood was warped and discolored.

Its the first time I've ever witnessed the results of a fire on firearms stored in a firesafe/gunsafe. I've seen money, jewlery and documents fair well in small, expensive fire safes.... But never the results of a fire on a big gun safe. I always document my jobs as best I can, a few of the firearms are visible in my pics... If anyone is interested, and I can get the owners permission.... I'll show you the results.
 
Rudy H said:
No offense sogetthis but you are a safe snob. ;)

I don't care what you think is a safe or not a safe. I care what the CFO, a judge, and a criminal considers a safe. As far as I'm concerned, based on the law, it's a safe.
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Actually, since the term is not legally defined under the law... You WILL care what a safetech thinks of your safe WHEN YOUR LAWYER PUTS HIM ON THE STAND TO TESTIFY ON YOUR BEHALF... Well, that's if he can find one willing to testify that what you have there is even a safe... There is a well-known safe technician who also happens to be a lawyer. His name is Marc Weber Thobias. I believe he has a website, send him an email. He'll have some stories to tell.

How can you say "based on the law, it's a safe" if the word isn't defined in the law?

The "only practical way in".... That's a laugh.

1. Pull the keypad to access leads, spike the lock solenoid with a 9v battery. 10 seconds. (Someone who builds "security electronics" should have seen this one coming)
2. Pry bar, BIG screwdriver combined attack (takes two people). 1 minute. There IS enough clearance, I've seen this attack work on doors MUCH MUCH TOUGHER.
3. I can't see the hinges, but I'm willing to bet they aren't very tough. Smash up the hinge pin and remove door. But like I say, I can't see the hinges/passive bolts.

Only if those attacks failed would I even venture into the realm of power tools, and an angle grinder is not a power tool used by any professional.

That's no burglary safe under ANYONE's definition, sorry.

Traditionally, this has been the definition of a SAFE: "A safe is usually a hollow cuboid or cylinder, with one face removable or hinged to form a door. The body and door are usually cast from a metal such as steel."

Only in the last 15 years have people begun using that term so freely. It only harms the consumer, when their container is actually put to the test and FAILS HORRIBLY. I've even seen this trend find its way into the business sector... Offices keeping large amounts of cash in a cheap container.

... Alarms are no excuse. Alarms are bypassed ALL THE TIME. Even cellular/wireless backups.
 
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1. Pull the keypad to access leads, spike the lock solenoid with a 9v battery. 10 seconds. (Someone who builds "security electronics" should have seen this one coming)
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And how does this get it open? Sorry but I did not use a solenoid for my safe. Stepper motor as I said above. The control electronics is inside the safe. The keypad only transmits key codes for every press. Either you know the code or you cut your way in.
 
I'd be interested to see the pics of the interior of the safe....

I've got a 1750F 2 hour rated safe....I think it's a Ficobec or something maybe? Took one football forward to move into my house when I first bought it (he had a fridge moving ramp and dolley) I've since used professional movers to haul it around. The door alone weighs in the 150 pound range.

NS
 
I wish I was rich...I'd buy a ticket for sogetthis to head over to rudy's place and let him have a crack at getting the safe open. I would pay for all damages and replacements, of course...and video tape it for us all to enjoy.

I would be the greatest rich guy ever, I tell ya!
 
sogetthis said:
If I can make a suggestion.... Look around at scrapyards for broken safes. A simple ex-government of canada plate safe that needs work can be had VERY cheap. You can then make repairs to the boltwork/door/hinges, replace the lock with one of your choosing, beef up security (add a high quality bit key lock, glass relocker, etc), add shelving and do the cosmetics (paint, etc).

I think you'll be a lot happier with the end product, this way.
Click to expand...

This is what I did. $275 got me a 17" X 42" X 62" old "Cary" safe with double doors and locking mechanism. I removed the concrete from the doors, repainted the exterior, lined the interior with gyproc, installed modular shelving and lined everything with synthetic suede. My father (retired tool maker) rebuilt and reset the combination lock for me. I figure I put an additional $250 into it.

I don't expect it to withstand a fire, but I am skeptical of any safe that claims to be fireproof. With any safe, there is going to be heat and water damage. Important documents and valuables are in a safety deposit box.
 
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