In the market for an Over Under. Is this Churchill good?

If you can get it for a decent price I wouldnt worry about it. I own a Browning Citori but I've also owned a Stoeger O/U. That Stoeger has seen 1000's of rounds. It feels like a 2x4 compared to the Browning. When I bought it in my early 20's it was all that I could afford. I'm sure a CZ or Churchill is higher quality than the Stoeger.

Shotguns are all about fit. Spend 100,000 bucks on a shotgun that doesn't fit you, thats more useless than a Turkish gun. Remington 870's smack my face so much I hate shooting clays with them.

For less money you could buy a Winchester SX4 and it will probably last you your whole life. Something to think about.
 
They couldn’t handle slugs and buck and being exposed to mud?

That seems very unlikely to put it diplomatically
 
The Kurgan said:
I am pretty certain there's more to the shotgun world than the 3 B's. Turkish guns started out as complete junk (for the most part), but have evolved into some very excellent products. As noted above, Winchester and CZ (to name only a few) market them under their own names with great reviews.
Hopefully, Admin will move this thread to Hunting and Sporting Shotguns.
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As far as Winchester goes, it's the SXP pumps made in Turkey. SX3/SX4 and the 101 Over/Under are made by Browning Viana, along with the XPR and Model 70. SXPs are okay-ish in the absence of Remington 870s, but not excellent.

I know you love the CZ guns, but the shotguns are just not up there in quality with the rifles. I've owned and passed on three of them so far, one Bobwhite and two Redheads. For less money, Huglu gives the same quality and functionality. I would rate a Franchi well above the Turkish stuff, exceeded yet again by B-guns/Sabatti/Rizzini.

In terms of value, I would take a used B-gun over anything from Turkey for a high volume shooter. I still own a few Turkish shotguns, they go bang but they are nowhere near the quality or reliability of my Browning and Benelli shotguns and are usually carried along for backup or as loaners.
 
mikeyb said:
As far as Winchester goes, it's the SXP pumps made in Turkey. SX3/SX4 and the 101 Over/Under are made by Browning Viana, along with the XPR and Model 70. SXPs are okay-ish in the absence of Remington 870s, but not excellent.

I know you love the CZ guns, but the shotguns are just not up there in quality with the rifles. I've owned and passed on three of them so far, one Bobwhite and two Redheads. For less money, Huglu gives the same quality and functionality. I would rate a Franchi well above the Turkish stuff, exceeded yet again by B-guns/Sabatti/Rizzini.

In terms of value, I would take a used B-gun over anything from Turkey for a high volume shooter. I still own a few Turkish shotguns, they go bang but they are nowhere near the quality or reliability of my Browning and Benelli shotguns and are usually carried along for backup or as loaners.
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I still beg to differ when it comes to pump action as late. I have no experience with their O/A, but the comments in the other threads are mostly very positive.
 
The Kurgan said:
I still beg to differ when it comes to pump action as late. I have no experience with their O/A, but the comments in the other threads are mostly very positive.
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Could be true on the pump side of things - I owned an early SXP and it was okay but since the aftermarket favoured Mossberg and Remington instead, I used a Mossberg 500 instead of the SXP (for a short-barrel build), and they were both rattle-cannons. I ordered a new Canuck-branded Enforcer the other day for the same use case (camp gun - fits in my scabbard) so I may update my opinions fairly soon as well. Sample size matters though, for sure.

On the double-gun side of things though, I went through a Tristar which was dirt cheap and that reflected in the quality. The CZ shotguns came afterward, and the wood was definitely nicer quality/grain but not any better as far as fit/finish. The metalwork was nice on my first Redhead and it went a good few thousand shells of hunting and trap, but the second had a weird inconsistency to the bluing, like it was glossy on one part but more satin on another and it rusted on the satin portions. The Bobwhite came in between (wanted to try a SxS) and wore fairly quickly, I sold it off to a low volume shooter with the caveat that it seemed to be softer steels used that resulted in it loosening up quickly, it only had 1000 or so shells through it. And the forearm never quite fit perfectly. And it didn't fit me well, but not due to any faults, just long in the buttstock, so that's a nitpick that could be fixed with a new pad or a table saw.

I've been told that the Huglu shotguns are the same overall quality as the CZ shotguns, and that if you are looking at CZ to get a "nice" double gun (above the lower-end Turkish shotguns) you might as well just get the Huglu instead, save a little cash, and shoot more. Two vendors who carry both brands made that recommendation to me.
 
I chatted with staff at Bullseye not long ago. They said they sell a gazillion Canucks in all flavours and that the QC has dramatically improved over the last couple of years and rarely do they see any warranty claims. My experience echos this. ATA Arms makes shotguns for the Turkish military and you can plainly see it's the identical design as the Derya-made pump action Canucks. Solid engineering.
 
The Kurgan said:
No, front sight fell off the Mossberg and my Remington kept rusting. They functioned fine.
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What grounds is a gun that hasn’t been exposed to field use more reliable is what I’m really hinting at.

One big advantage of the canucks is the ease of takedown for cleaning so you don’t have to put them away wet after riding them hard


saw.

I've been told that the Huglu shotguns are the same overall quality as the CZ shotguns, and that if you are looking at CZ to get a "nice" double gun (above the lower-end Turkish shotguns) you might as well just get the Huglu instead, save a little cash, and shoot more. Two vendors who carry both brands made that recommendation to me.
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Are CZs not just Huglus rebranded?

My buddy used to duck hunt with a mallard o/u ( I think? CZ with double triggers?) he got a pretty good deal on it 5 or so years ago. It seemed to function fine but my huglu was a similar price years later and much better done (ventus woodcock), should never have sold it
 
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mikeyb said:
As far as Winchester goes, it's the SXP pumps made in Turkey. SX3/SX4 and the 101 Over/Under are made by Browning Viana, along with the XPR and Model 70. SXPs are okay-ish in the absence of Remington 870s, but not excellent.

I know you love the CZ guns, but the shotguns are just not up there in quality with the rifles. I've owned and passed on three of them so far, one Bobwhite and two Redheads. For less money, Huglu gives the same quality and functionality. I would rate a Franchi well above the Turkish stuff, exceeded yet again by B-guns/Sabatti/Rizzini.

In terms of value, I would take a used B-gun over anything from Turkey for a high volume shooter. I still own a few Turkish shotguns, they go bang but they are nowhere near the quality or reliability of my Browning and Benelli shotguns and are usually carried along for backup or as loaners.
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By used B-guns, I presume that you include Baikal, of course. Even the snotty British gun writers all admit that the Russki guns, for all their crudities, last forever. They are perhaps the ultimate workingman's hunting arm.
 
I own a Churchill Monarch O/U imported by Kassnar from Italy. It is a field gun but I use it for Trap shooting. Purchased new in 1988. Still locks up tight.
 
The Kurgan said:
I chatted with staff at Bullseye not long ago. They said they sell a gazillion Canucks in all flavours and that the QC has dramatically improved over the last couple of years and rarely do they see any warranty claims. My experience echos this. ATA Arms makes shotguns for the Turkish military and you can plainly see it's the identical design as the Derya-made pump action Canucks. Solid engineering.
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Bullseye doesnt deal with warrenty on canucks. Explains why they don't see warrenty claims. Every canuck that has come out even slightly regularly to my local club has needed warrenty. However odell engineering has been great to deal with. Free shipping labels provided. Guns fixed in timely manner and returned actually fixed

This isnt a knock on bullseye in anyway. Ive got maybe 5 or 6 flats of trap load and 5 or 6 boxes of 3" steel duck loads and many slugs factory and home cast thru my regulator since i got it back from odell. Been flawless since. I like that it takes good chokes. Beretta mobil
 
conor_90 said:
What grounds is a gun that hasn’t been exposed to field use more reliable is what I’m really hinting at.

One big advantage of the canucks is the ease of takedown for cleaning so you don’t have to put them away wet after riding them hard




Are CZs not just Huglus rebranded?

My buddy used to duck hunt with a mallard o/u ( I think? CZ with double triggers?) he got a pretty good deal on it 5 or so years ago. It seemed to function fine but my huglu was a similar price years later and much better done (ventus woodcock), should never have sold it
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Huglu makes the cz shotguns to cz specs. Cz lawyers love triggers that will support the guns weight where as the huglu branded guns have much nicer triggers and better fit and finish
 
sgt.rock said:
I did last year and dont regret it. Removable chokes and a stout action but shoulders great. I think I paid less than 500
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I love my baikal ij58. Fixed chokes and weighs a ton but its been 100% reliable and ive put over 78000 rounds thru it. Still tight except the forearm hook has worn and sharp. I still shoot it every now and then. It was my first sxs and i shot trap and skeet with it for years. Never regretted buying it
 
cosmic said:
Can someone confirm the aluminum receiver statement? I thought they were steel. With comparable B gun prices in the order of 3K, its not surprising the Turks have established a market following. Can anybody comment on warranty or service for Churchill shotguns in Canada?
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they are steel, i own many
 
I purchased the churchill 206 and put about 1000 rounds through it since i made this post, havent had an issue since. so far it seems accurate and reliable for sporting clays. it goes boom when i pull the trigger, for 1/3 of the cost of a beretta 686, im happy with it
 
mikeyb said:
Could be true on the pump side of things - I owned an early SXP and it was okay but since the aftermarket favoured Mossberg and Remington instead, I used a Mossberg 500 instead of the SXP (for a short-barrel build), and they were both rattle-cannons. I ordered a new Canuck-branded Enforcer the other day for the same use case (camp gun - fits in my scabbard) so I may update my opinions fairly soon as well. Sample size matters though, for sure.

On the double-gun side of things though, I went through a Tristar which was dirt cheap and that reflected in the quality. The CZ shotguns came afterward, and the wood was definitely nicer quality/grain but not any better as far as fit/finish. The metalwork was nice on my first Redhead and it went a good few thousand shells of hunting and trap, but the second had a weird inconsistency to the bluing, like it was glossy on one part but more satin on another and it rusted on the satin portions. The Bobwhite came in between (wanted to try a SxS) and wore fairly quickly, I sold it off to a low volume shooter with the caveat that it seemed to be softer steels used that resulted in it loosening up quickly, it only had 1000 or so shells through it. And the forearm never quite fit perfectly. And it didn't fit me well, but not due to any faults, just long in the buttstock, so that's a nitpick that could be fixed with a new pad or a table saw.

I've been told that the Huglu shotguns are the same overall quality as the CZ shotguns, and that if you are looking at CZ to get a "nice" double gun (above the lower-end Turkish shotguns) you might as well just get the Huglu instead, save a little cash, and shoot more. Two vendors who carry both brands made that recommendation to me.
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Just for your information, CZ's All American Trap is made by Akkar, the same company that makes Churchill. Huglu is not quite the quality of the Akkar and if you check out Churchill's Trap gun it has more features than the CZ All American. CZ contracts Huglu to make all their shotguns except the All American Trap. From the guns that I've handled Huglu is no where near the quality of the early European made CZ guns and I would certainly choose a Churchill over a Huglu CZ.
Don't expect European CZ quality from a newly manufactured CZ shotgun
 
I’d just save and invest in something quality, instead of buy multiple guns and chasing the disappointment. Once I bought a quality piece I couldn’t buy a cheap one again. Been down that road and looking back at the amount I spent searching for a good cheap shotgun I could have taken all that money that I blew on multiple pieces of junk and just bought a really nice one in the first place.
I’m in the Turkish guns are trash camp.
 
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