Best self defence Grizzly buster..

Best grizzly buster.

  • Marlin 45-70 Guide gun

    Votes: 85 67.5%

  • Springfield 30-06 M1 Garand

    Votes: 17 13.5%

  • Remington 870 12g Police

    Votes: 24 19.0%
  • Total voters
    126
  • Poll closed .
Depends on the terrain. If I am to take an aimed shot at 50 to 100 yards, the 45-70 would be my choice.

If it is thick cover, the 870 loaded with the sabot slugs. They have better penetration.

But of the guns in my cabinet - a 375 H&H double rifle.
 
Would anyone consider a .303 Jungle Carbine as a contender?? I would.
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Contender for 'usefull for bear defense"? Sure. But 'the best'?

of the three mentioned - 45-70 is the winner, with shotgun being second.

The only reason the shotgun is better in some cases is they tend to be somewhat lighter and you can get 'em somewhat smaller. But if you had a choice as to what you have in your actual hands if the time came...
 
Actually having to live and work amongst grumbly bears and coastal brown bears on a fairly regular basis, the 12 gauge is the hands down winner of the three mentioned. A 492 grain, .730" diameter piece of lead moving at about 1600 fps makes a really big hole going in and keeps on doing so all the way. Any expansion just sweetens the deal. You'll also be shooting a pump or autoloader from the shoulder a lot faster and with more accuracy than a lever or bolt. Not pretty, not the classic rifleman's arm, but does the job.

You can buy .45-70 ammunition that is right over the top of course - but you can also buy specialty 12 gauge ammunition like the Dixie Xterminator stuff that runs along the lines of the old Brit Paradox loads, except even more so.

If you're talking about 50 yards, 100 yards, etc, you aren't talking about bear defense, you're talking about hunting. In which case a 30/06 is just fine when combined with common sense, as thousands of dead grizzlies can attest to. Perhaps not the best choice, but perfectly adequate. I've seen friends drop grizzlies quite decisively with .270's, as far as that goes. But that was back in the early 70's, prior to magnum-itis, the Internet, and bear defense threads, when Jack O'Conner was doing that and we didn't realize how crazy we were to attempt such an outrageous feat.

I never did shoot a grizzly with a 30/06, and now I feel much better hunting grumbly bears with a 358 Norma Magnum - which does a very nice job indeed. But I carry a 12 gauge, not the 358, when working in grumbly bear country.
 
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So far what i have seen with regular 12gauge soft lead foster slugs is a real possibility of very poor penetration. If I am going to specifically carry a gun for front to rear life saving shots I have come to the conclusion that foster slugs are not a good choice.

For that reason I am going to be working on a hardened round ball load, similar to the Paradox rifles of old. They used to be capable of penetrating the head of Indian elephants right through.
 
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They're a hell of a lot more rugged than fosters. They'll penetrate better.

But i really don't know that penetration would be a serious problem even with regular 3 inch slugs. Still - why not use the best.
 
I am pretty sure Brenekes are not hardened. As far as I know Dixie is the only one making hardened slugs, and they are meant to be fired from a rifled BBL. As far as I know they do not have a weight forward design meaning then are no good for smooth bore (that's what I have) and at .730 they cannot be used in anything with a choke.


The best/easiest thing to do is make your own. I will do the round ball, if that is no good I will try the Lyman 525g shot cup slug.
 
Republic of Alberta said:
I am pretty sure Brenekes are not hardened.
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For sure they are harder than regular fosters: IE-Winchester Super X.
Otherwise why are Brennekes (Dixie too) such highly recommended in places like Alaska for protection of fisherman, while stream fishing salmon?
When I as in Juneau, May 2000, these Brenneke slugs, were almost always sold out during the salmon run.
 
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well gatehouse did a comparison a few years back, and the brenneke's sure seemed to hold together better in testing. Perhaps its' their design, perhaps it's the alloy, i wouldn't know.

But regular fosters have taken a lot of game and i've talked to several people who've gotten first rate penetration, even thru bone. One gent ran one end to end thru a black bear. Now - a black is no grizzlie that's true. But I'm just not hearing performance on game that would make me outrageously concerned about using a slug on a griz. But - a brenneke will likely give you a little more 'hit' for your buck.
 
The only real difference between a Brenneke and a foster is that the Brenneke is solid, using an attached plastic wad for stabilization. The foster has a hollow base giving it a weight forwards profile for stabilization.

I would like to find out the hardness of the Brennekes, I am willing to bet they are pure lead or the hardness is very near it.


Like I say I am not impressed with what i have seen as far as penetration with soft lead slugs goes. It does not take much for the slug to become a lot wider than it is long at muzzle velocity and penetration suffered big time. When I have shot them into soft materials the penetration is DEEP but it does not seem to take much to get that lead to mush into an ashtray. There is to fine a line as far as the hardness of the target and amount of penetration.


Few would shoot a low SD pure lead cast bullet out of say a 45-70 at 1200fps thinking it is going to be a big time penetrator and even plain old common sense would tell you that it is not going to take much to make that bullet turn into a pancake. Make that bullet a hard cast or put a copper jacket on it and now you got something. Anyways, that is my reasoning in trying to build up a hard ball load...AND it will be fun.
 
Well gatehouse managed to run a few brenekes thru a propane tank without them breaking up. That means thru steel, and then hits the other side and thru again. That aught to be hard enough to pretty much thrash a bear most of the time. The fosters broke up - but still did manage to penetrate the other side in pieces. Obviously not as dramatic a hole at all as the brenneke's.

So there would appear to be SOME difference between them performance wise.
 
I give up, Republic, we are talking about a slug design thats been in the works since 1898, and finalized in and around 1930. So myself and Foxer are wasting our time here.
In-animate targets mean nothing here, real exprience on critters, does mean something.

No offence intended here bud....
 
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Any shotgun slug marketed for use in a standard shotgun must be soft enough to pass through a full choke without damaging the gun, and this would include the Brenneke. It's secret to success is in it's shape not it's hardness.

Is there a source for Dixie slugs up here? I would like to give them a try.
 
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