caliber talk

E.H.

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Hi people, i read on many forums that the 762X54R uses a .311 to .312 bullet but i found out on a reloading tool i received that it actually uses a 30 cal bullet (.310 diameter) so i'm kind of confused why people are spreading that info... because of that i'm more than ever tempted to convert my lee enfield to a 7.62X54R chamber... i'll probably get a brand new barrel altogether though. reason why i want to spend so much money for it is because of the sentimental value it has for me.

it's gift from my grandmother to my grandfather that was passed to me. no one was allowed to touch the rifle other than my grandpa for a long time until he decided to pass it to me of all people... i guess it made him want to do so because it was my favourite thing to play with when i was a kid... (he was always close while i was ''playing'' with it so it was always safe as i also learned firearm safety from him)

anyway, why the difference of bullet diameter info spreading when it takes a standard 30cal bullet without fuss according to the lee hand loader papers?
 
Go with what you read on those forums and not what the Lee dies are marked as. You definitely want a bullet dia of .310-.312. .308 will shoot ok if they obturate enough though

Edit to add. In your opening post you wrote .30 cal or .310 .30 is .308
 
Depending upon which Lee Enfield you have, the higher pressure of the 7.62x54R round may be unsafe, and will devalue the rifle (more so if still in full military trim or close, somewhat less on a chopped up sporter.)

Also not sure why you would look to modify something like your grandpa’s rifle, it’s your gun to do as you wish, but it will only be as your grandpa gave it to you once. Myself I would leave it as is if it has as much sentimental value as you say. The cost of altering it will buy a lot of .303 British ammo, although right now that and the proper components to load your own are hard to come by.

Another option is to pull down the 7.62x54R surplus ammo and reload into .303 cases, but the powder charge needs to be adjusted to safe levels in the .303. Some people gamble with reducing the surplus charge, others use canister powder at appropriate charges.
 
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Hi people, i read on many forums that the 762X54R uses a .311 to .312 bullet but i found out on a reloading tool i received that it actually uses a 30 cal bullet (.310 diameter) so i'm kind of confused why people are spreading that info... because of that i'm more than ever tempted to convert my lee enfield to a 7.62X54R chamber... i'll probably get a brand new barrel altogether though. reason why i want to spend so much money for it is because of the sentimental value it has for me.

it's gift from my grandmother to my grandfather that was passed to me. no one was allowed to touch the rifle other than my grandpa for a long time until he decided to pass it to me of all people... i guess it made him want to do so because it was my favourite thing to play with when i was a kid... (he was always close while i was ''playing'' with it so it was always safe as i also learned firearm safety from him)

anyway, why the difference of bullet diameter info spreading when it takes a standard 30cal bullet without fuss according to the lee hand loader papers?

Okay I see a bunch of issues with this post.

Old military rifles that are 100 years old or close to it were not made with the same tolerences as today's firearms, and they were often well used before hitting the surplus market. Thus, both a Lee Enfield and a Mosin Nagant can have quite a range of bore diameters, stuff as big as .314 or bigger is not out of the question.

I have pulled apart some 7.62x54r, the bullets measured .3105-.311, which may or may not shoot well out or your enfield bore, you would need to slug the bore to find out.

Finally, I think the idea of destroying Grandpa's Lee Enfield just so you can fire cheaper ammo in it is sacrilege. Yes, I understand that 303 British is not cheap, but it would take a lot of shooting 7.62x54r to make up for the money you'd spend on the conversion (if its even reasonably possible?) and you'll be mucking up Grandpa's rifle in the process. I say leave Grandpa's rifle alone, and buy a Mosin if you want to shoot 7.62x54r - that would probably be cheaper than messing with the Enfield and you end up with 2 rifles, thats a win win IMO.
 
If you rechamber a .303 barrel to 7.62x54R, the 7.62 reamer will not remove all the .303 chamber. It has been done, but the fired cases will have a peculiar double shoulder.
The usual reason for doing this was that 7.62x54R ammunition was more available and cheaper than .303.
Rebarreling is a possibility. I have not done it, but perhaps a .303 barrel could be set back so that the new 7.62 chamber would be clean. If you could find a gunsmith with the reamer, it might cost a couple of hundred dollars. If a blank were used, the cost would be several hundred.
A question was raised above about the safety of a 7.62x54R conversion. No. 4 rifles were converted to 7.62x51. I don't know if converting a SMLE would be a good idea.

Suther's advice is sound.
 
OP, if I may suggest, instead of going through all of the issues and expense of changing barrels, or setting back the original barrel and rechambering it for the 7.62x54R, put the money towards handloading equipment and components.

As Tiriaq states, the barrel has to be set back by two threads depth and rechambered, to properly use the x54r case and as Suther states, the bore on your rifle likely won't shoot the mostly .310-311 diameter bullets well.

The bores on 303Brit barrels run from .309 to .315 diameter or maybe even more, depending on the acceptance standards of the factory on any particular day.

Slug your bore with a lead bullet to determine its diameter. Then, it may actually be appropriate to rechamber that rifle.

From your post, the rifle has already been converted to sporting rifle configurations, so you're not destroying a valuable rifle.

If your rifle has a .311 or less bore, it will shoot the cartridge you're asking about, and if it's .312 diameter or more, you will be out the cost of the conversion and have an inaccurate rifle.

I have a .312 diameter piece of polished drill rod, that I use to insert into the bores of 303 Brit, before I will contemplate purchasing.

If that rod doesn't meet some resistance, I won't consider the rifle for personal use. Inaccurate rifles are just another frustration in my life that I don't want or need.

You can purchase a "Lee" handloading tool, dies and small digital scale that will easily fit into a small tool box. If the box is a bit bigger, it will hold a pound of powder, 100 primers, 100 bullets and 50 brass cases.

Learn to use this tool properly and you will get several reloads on each case. The case will be neck sized only, which will extend the amount of times you can reload them.

The first 100 reloads will pay for most of the cost of the kit and components. It will never be free, but once you've got the hang of things, costs will be way down below off the shelf factory ammo.

Get into casting bullets and powder coating, then costs really come down.

Unless there is something drastically wrong with the bore of your inherited rifle, my suggestion will be the cheapest route, with a very short payback time.

Not only that but you will have cartridges tailor made for your particular rifle.
 
Setting back the SMLE barrel would complicate matters with the fore-end barrel band and tensioning screw. I think the barrel band arrangement works well on a sported SMLE as it helps secure the fore-end. (Sported number 4's are vulnerable in this regard, as they have no such arrangement.)
Finally, the rim and case diameters are different between the two calibers. I dont know if the bolt head would work without modifications. Also the magazine lips would need to be tweaked by someone knowledgeable in such matters.
I'm surprised the OP continues to flog this idea, considering Tradex has NOS SMLE barrels for cheaps, should the existing barrel have issues as per bearhunters post.. I havent seen NOS barrels like these for decades. Too bad I dont have a SMLE project on the go, I'd be doing even more business with Anthony!
 
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Hmmmm. Now you've got me wondering how 7 62x54r might fit the bolt head and/or magazine.... I have an Enfield and x54r cases too, but I'm not certain where the cases are after my move...
 
Setting back the SMLE barrel would complicate matters with the fore-end barrel band and tensioning screw. I think the barrel band arrangement works well on a sported SMLE as it helps secure the fore-end. (Sported number 4's are vulnerable in this regard, as they have no such arrangement.)
Finally, the rim and case diameters are different between the two calibers. I dont know if the bolt head would work without modifications. Also the magazine lips would need to be tweaked by someone knowledgeable in such matters.
I'm surprised the OP continues to flog this idea, considering Tradex has NOS SMLE barrels for cheaps, should the existing barrel have issues as per bearhunters post.. I havent seen NOS barrels like these for decades. Too bad I dont have a SMLE project on the go, I'd be doing even more business with Anthony!

I have a NOS No1 MkIII barrel in the white I could be persuaded to part with, as well as another that's slightly used, may even still be fitted with sights.
 
Hmmmm. Now you've got me wondering how 7 62x54r might fit the bolt head and/or magazine.... I have an Enfield and x54r cases too, but I'm not certain where the cases are after my move...

Depending on the X54r cases, some of them have slightly rounded faces, that either need to be refaced or the bolt head changed out to fit, or the reamer can be run in a bit further to get proper headspace.

That means the extractor also needs to be ground to fit over the inside of the rim, which is usually a bit thicker than those on 303Brit cases, depending on manufacturer.

I've done such conversions. They're a lot of work/expense for no real gain.
 
got it, thanks for the infos everyone. the reason why i wanted to change the barrel by the way is to put a long eye relief scope on it. my idea was that the barrel has a place to add a rail like on some scout rifle contours. the receiver is dovetailed cut and the rear sight is very shallow... as for the caliber. i was very confused by what was written on the lee hand loading tool. i also got some dies for .303 british but yeah i just thought that if the ammo used was indeed .30 cal instead it would be much easier to find with much more selections to choose from. that cartridge is really confusing...
 
got it, thanks for the infos everyone. the reason why i wanted to change the barrel by the way is to put a long eye relief scope on it. my idea was that the barrel has a place to add a rail like on some scout rifle contours. the receiver is dovetailed cut and the rear sight is very shallow... as for the caliber. i was very confused by what was written on the lee hand loading tool. i also got some dies for .303 british but yeah i just thought that if the ammo used was indeed .30 cal instead it would be much easier to find with much more selections to choose from. that cartridge is really confusing...

A few decades back in time, a couple of friends and I took a couple of surplus Springfield O3 barrels, which could be had super cheap, and cut back the chambers on them enough to thread the tenons and chamber them for the 303Brit case.

We wanted to get away from looking for proper sized bullets, whose bores varied from one rifle to another, often drastically.

We neck sized the cases using a .307 diameter expander ball so that the 308 diameter bullets, which were readily available as surplus or commerial could be utilized and without so much frustration.

Those were both incredibly accurate No4s, with those NOS surplus O3 barrels fitted.

I sold mine to a local fellow that passed on last year and last summer his son was using the rifle to hunt Deer with, because "It used to be really accurate when his DAD shot it"

He hadn't bothered to learn how to reload and after using up all of the ammo his father left behind, was using off the shelf ammunition, with .312 bullets.

I was surprised that they even chambered but remembered we didn't get a reamer made up for the smaller diameter necks.

His groups were appx 6 inches (12cm) at 100 yards.

This isn't a dangerous condition IMHO but the oversize bullets obviously weren't happy being swaged down that much in the process of firing.

I made arrangements for him to come over and get some coaching on reloading cartridges for his rifles.

He had half a dozen rifles, with brass and components on hand for all of them. He's never been the most enthusiastic person about anything, so I wasn't even expecting him to show up.

All of his firearms came from his father. He's never been able to afford to purchase any.

I told him to only bring his father's reloading notebook and the powder/bullets/primers/dies I knew he had on hand, for the No4.

He actually showed up and was even enthusiastic, turned out I had to change my view of him. He's a nice guy, but super shy.

Anyway, we put his dies into a press that is identical to that from his fathers bench and loaded up a hundred rounds for the No4 with a 308 diameter bore, using his father's recorded data.

We took the rifle to the range, after a thorough cleaning(another much needed lesson) and the rifle settled right down to slightly over 1 inch (2cm) groups at 100 yards, after appx 5 fouling rounds.

The fellow was very happy.

It turns out he moved into his father's house, after he passed and the room the firearms safe/reloading equipment was left untouched.

He's a nice fellow, two nice kids and a nice wife. The house is close to 50 years old but it's sound and has a good roof.

This is the first time in their lives, they haven't had to pay rent. He's managed to pay of all of their debts with the extra money on hand and even after some house repairs/taxes/insurance, he's managing to put money aside for retirement. Good on them.

EH, sorry for wandering off the topic, I was just trying to throw out that you may want to look at a .308 bore take off barrel to fit to that No1 you have. It would make your endeavor so much easier in the long run.

The difficult part will be finding a smith with the knowledge and a reamer to do the job.
 
A few decades back in time, a couple of friends and I took a couple of surplus Springfield O3 barrels, which could be had super cheap, and cut back the chambers on them enough to thread the tenons and chamber them for the 303Brit case.

We wanted to get away from looking for proper sized bullets, whose bores varied from one rifle to another, often drastically.

We neck sized the cases using a .307 diameter expander ball so that the 308 diameter bullets, which were readily available as surplus or commerial could be utilized and without so much frustration.

Those were both incredibly accurate No4s, with those NOS surplus O3 barrels fitted.

I sold mine to a local fellow that passed on last year and last summer his son was using the rifle to hunt Deer with, because "It used to be really accurate when his DAD shot it"

He hadn't bothered to learn how to reload and after using up all of the ammo his father left behind, was using off the shelf ammunition, with .312 bullets.

I was surprised that they even chambered but remembered we didn't get a reamer made up for the smaller diameter necks.

His groups were appx 6 inches (12cm) at 100 yards.

This isn't a dangerous condition IMHO but the oversize bullets obviously weren't happy being swaged down that much in the process of firing.

I made arrangements for him to come over and get some coaching on reloading cartridges for his rifles.

He had half a dozen rifles, with brass and components on hand for all of them. He's never been the most enthusiastic person about anything, so I wasn't even expecting him to show up.

All of his firearms came from his father. He's never been able to afford to purchase any.

I told him to only bring his father's reloading notebook and the powder/bullets/primers/dies I knew he had on hand, for the No4.

He actually showed up and was even enthusiastic, turned out I had to change my view of him. He's a nice guy, but super shy.

Anyway, we put his dies into a press that is identical to that from his fathers bench and loaded up a hundred rounds for the No4 with a 308 diameter bore, using his father's recorded data.

We took the rifle to the range, after a thorough cleaning(another much needed lesson) and the rifle settled right down to slightly over 1 inch (2cm) groups at 100 yards, after appx 5 fouling rounds.

The fellow was very happy.

It turns out he moved into his father's house, after he passed and the room the firearms safe/reloading equipment was left untouched.

He's a nice fellow, two nice kids and a nice wife. The house is close to 50 years old but it's sound and has a good roof.

This is the first time in their lives, they haven't had to pay rent. He's managed to pay of all of their debts with the extra money on hand and even after some house repairs/taxes/insurance, he's managing to put money aside for retirement. Good on them.

EH, sorry for wandering off the topic, I was just trying to throw out that you may want to look at a .308 bore take off barrel to fit to that No1 you have. It would make your endeavor so much easier in the long run.

The difficult part will be finding a smith with the knowledge and a reamer to do the job.

very cool experience! i was thinking about lothar walther in the past for a barrel, they still make no4 barrels in .303 british so i bet a .308 bore would be more than doable for them. i'm curious about the load data of that story you shared too! i got reloading dies for the .303 british too but i was wondering if i could use the reloading dies by hand using some parts of the hand loading kit i got for the 7.62X54R... i could easily deprime and prime at the very least but i don'T know what my limits would be mixing up the tools to kind of make a makeshift hand loaading ''kit''... i just don'T have the press yet so it would take a while for me to get (merely a just in case scenario). i wanted to try to use the berger hybrid bullet so down sizing the neck would definitely be something i'd love to do... i just need the tool for that...
 
I have #1 and #4 rifles with old 308 target rifle barrels installed, chambered with a 303Brit reamer. they shoot 303 brass loaded with 308 bullets. My ammo is labeled 308Brit.

I found it a good way to make good shooter rifles. I have lots of 308 match bullets on hand and lots of 303Brit brass, plus used 308 barrels.

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very cool experience! i was thinking about lothar walther in the past for a barrel, they still make no4 barrels in .303 british so i bet a .308 bore would be more than doable for them. i'm curious about the load data of that story you shared too! i got reloading dies for the .303 british too but i was wondering if i could use the reloading dies by hand using some parts of the hand loading kit i got for the 7.62X54R... i could easily deprime and prime at the very least but i don'T know what my limits would be mixing up the tools to kind of make a makeshift hand loaading ''kit''... i just don'T have the press yet so it would take a while for me to get (merely a just in case scenario). i wanted to try to use the berger hybrid bullet so down sizing the neck would definitely be something i'd love to do... i just need the tool for that...

You're not going to get far with a LEE Loader, made up for 7.62x54r.

It sounds like you're either space restricted or cash strapped.

As mentioned, you can get a Lee HAND PRESS with dies out of Higginson's for under $150. You can use the Lee scoop set for powder charges or you can pick up a cheap Hornady digital scale for around $50.

You keep fixating on the 7.62x54r, not sure why. IMHO, it's basically a dead end road that won't give you any satisfaction.
 
Considering the OP doesnt have his PAL yet, nor the rifle in question, the internet-inspired wanderings in his posts are not surprising. He has been encouraged by several forum members to inspect his grandfathers rifle when it arrives, clean it, and shoot it. If he doesnt have the experience to inspect it, or clean it, he would be well advised to take it to a gunsmith. There is a very good chance that the subject rifle will shoot fine, at least as capable as he can shoot, as is.
 
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Considering the OP doesnt have his PAL yet, nor the rifle in question, the internet-inspired wanderings in his posts are not surprising. He has been encouraged by several forum members to inspect his grandfathers rifle when it arrives, clean it, and shoot it. If he doesnt have the experience to inspect it, or clean it, he would be well advised to take it to a gunsmith. There is a very good chance that the subject rifle will shoot fine, at least as capable as he can shoot, as is.

i will take it to a gunsmith before shooting it for sure just in case. also decided to not invest too much money on it, maybe just a new forend since it's missing chunks of wood. will concentrate my efforts on a sks build instead and keep that lee enfield on the side... maybe even try to restore it or something... wwill have to plug that dovetail cut in the receiver though and find a few barrel mounted parts...
 
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