Dan from acu-tig? would be able to offer a legit opinion, A lot of variation exists between bolt handles/cam surface depending on the version, my understanding is that extraction cam geometry has gotten progressively worse over the years. My newest is an older j lock and it does the job.
Experiences with recent 700s?
- Thread starter Joel
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I know what you mean. You can see it when you lift the bolt handle (with a case in the chamber) and the bolt handle doesn't touch the angled camming cut on the receiver.
I spoke with Casey at Tac ord about repositioning the bolt handle and he pretty much said "Shoot the gun. Lets talk about that when you find you actually need it". I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist. It wasn't needed so we never spoke of it again.
Dan (and his clients) say that the feeling is very different when working the action with a properly timed handle. I've no doubt of that...more leverage beats less. Hasn't been a problem yet. Could it if the chamber ends up really gross, etc? Probs. Not yet.
On a rifle that costs as much as a 700 does its a wee bit disappointing though.
Federal ammunition purchased Remington ammo
More than a few gun designs have very poor primary extraction. Whether or not it presents a problem is another story. Most people don’t hunt dangerous game, use dirty poor quality ammo or reloads, hunt in weather that’s extreme or are soldiers in the trenches. Look what subsistence hunters uses when out on the land for weeks/months at a time for applicable ideas. Ardent ? made many posts on what worked for him on the “wet” coast, others on here have done the same.
I think one of the appeals of military surplus rifles/rifle designs is dependability/durability that’s been proven.
Some of the smiths on here have provided good info on the safety of the 700 when ammo mistakes have happened.
All of my jabber doesn’t really mean anything. If functional problems/true issues present themselves have them fixed or change your equipment, just understand chasing perceptions can get expensive and is largely unnecessary for most
“How many guys thought their barrels where junk after getting a borescope without taking into account how the barrel shot/shoots.”
I think one of the appeals of military surplus rifles/rifle designs is dependability/durability that’s been proven.
Some of the smiths on here have provided good info on the safety of the 700 when ammo mistakes have happened.
All of my jabber doesn’t really mean anything. If functional problems/true issues present themselves have them fixed or change your equipment, just understand chasing perceptions can get expensive and is largely unnecessary for most
“How many guys thought their barrels where junk after getting a borescope without taking into account how the barrel shot/shoots.”
I have one of those. Kills good. Cases don’t stick. Bolt opens and ejects. It’s an internet forum problem more then a field issue IMO.
Accutig Dan will set me straight. Hope he’s not yelling again.
Hahahahah. I know what you mean.
Leeper said:
Mr Leeper, I gather from the forum here you've worked on a fair few rifles in general
The thing is, when a rifle doesn't work as it should (and primary extraction is an important part of the equation) there is something wrong and there is no reason to accept that as being OK.
Someone said there are a lot of other rifles which have poor primary extraction, If so, that means they are effed up too!
Someone said there are a lot of other rifles which have poor primary extraction, If so, that means they are effed up too!
Indeed! And although the Swiss military exercises were probably not for the weak, we don't know how that one would have done in wartime service.
I know what you mean about chasing perception and money...at least if one did want to cross off a number of reliability features etc the Rugers are (well, "were" might be more accurate at this point) available in what was a pretty affordable CRF platform with a very simple trigger.
I'd be all over a Hawkeye in 7mm-08 or 6.5 CM
If push feed is permissible the Vanguard is a pretty good option too.
While I really wouldn't worry about the bolt handle positioning on the 700 for a hunting rifle at all, it does strike me as a pretty sad omission/manufacturing bug on a rifle of nearly or over $1000 depending on the model. Not a deal breaker but a facepalm, I guess. Not enough to keep me from owning one to hunt with but...yknow...
I felt the same way about the pot metal bolt shrouds on the Bergaras once people started showing pictures of them cracked in half.
I know what you mean about chasing perception and money...at least if one did want to cross off a number of reliability features etc the Rugers are (well, "were" might be more accurate at this point) available in what was a pretty affordable CRF platform with a very simple trigger.
I'd be all over a Hawkeye in 7mm-08 or 6.5 CM
If push feed is permissible the Vanguard is a pretty good option too.
While I really wouldn't worry about the bolt handle positioning on the 700 for a hunting rifle at all, it does strike me as a pretty sad omission/manufacturing bug on a rifle of nearly or over $1000 depending on the model. Not a deal breaker but a facepalm, I guess. Not enough to keep me from owning one to hunt with but...yknow...
I felt the same way about the pot metal bolt shrouds on the Bergaras once people started showing pictures of them cracked in half.
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I’ve never had an issue the newest I have is a jlock from? Idk what the prefix is. I would expect a competent gunsmith to be aware of and exposed to all manner of operator stupidity. I sure he’s witnessed manufactured defects/problems/decline in quality on a level above most on here. I value and appreciate his opinion and knowledge.
No, I have not because I would have fixed it before using it. Customers who had rifles with this issue did not have to push a rod down the barrel but did have to hit the handle with their hand or, in some cases, with a plastic hammer.
Look, if you guys want to think a faulty rifle is just fine, that's OK with me. As long as you never use dirty ammunition or hunt in poor conditions, or fire a cartridge which is a little hot, you should be OK.
By the way, the primary extraction on the K-31 is provided by the angled front of the lugs contacting a corresponding surface in the receiver. The rearward movement is minimal (less than .030) but positive and, in conjunction with the inertia of the rearward travel of the bolt, works pretty well. The super smooth chamber they usually have doesn't hurt either.
I load hot, hunt whenever and where ever with multiple “faulty primary extraction” model 700’s. I don’t feed it muddy ammo mind you...
I have never needed a plastic hammer to open a bolt on a load that I would use for hunting. Never.
Remington proof tests these same rifles. They don’t use hammers to open bolts.
If it was a functional problem opening the bolt and extracting a case there would be thousands of Model 700’s stacked in a warehouse needing warranty work. There aren’t. It isn’t.
I’ll go so far to say it’s a gunsmith make-work project.
