Lots of newby questions

[huntingfish]

Hi everyone!
Been reading lots of different texts lately about reloading and I have a few questions that I've been accumulating in my head. As many have helped me out with my many questions, some of you might already be familiar with the fact that I have a MEC Jr (not Mk V) press on it's way as well as a hornady scale.

For the first few reloads, I'm guessing it would be wise to choose lower pressure loads when possible, right or it doesn't really matter that much as long as the recipe is followed to the T?

I always thought that a reloader should only use recipes published in reloading books. But actually, a reloader should only use recipes published by reputable sources, such as powder manufacturers, reloading books, wad manufacturer, etc. Is there a central place that has all this data somewhere? That would be awesome.

I'm still unclear as to which would be best for hunting: nickel plate or copper plated? I've used copper plated #7.5 for grouse last year and those ammo were the bomb (ok, so grouse isn't hard to kill to begin with, I know). It's one of the reason why I wanted to get started with reloading, I can't find any copper plated factory ammo anywhere in my neck of the woods. Specifically, which one pulls the least feathers into the meat?

For a first batch of reloads, I'm guessing I should use which ever hulls I plan on using regularly and not simply buy cheaper hulls to practice on, which would require me to buy extra components (wads/powder) just for practice.

I plan on doing a target load, grouse load and pheasant load. Maybe eventually, a duck load (we ate duck meat yesterday and the girlfriend raved about it...hehe), but since it would need to be non-lead, that'll be later.
Could I easily swap between 2 3/4" and 3" hulls or should I stick to 2 3/4"? Is there a lot of fine adjustments to do with all stations when I would switch between the two lengths of hull or is it just a matter a raising the main beam by 1/4" and hoefully, everything continues to work?

Thanks!

David

 

[huntingfish]

Ah, I forgot,...I also wanted to know if there was a ranking of some sort as far as hull's reloadability goes?
I believe Remington's STS or gun club's are very sought after.
Afterwards, Winchester's AA seem to be highly regarded as well.
But after these "top tier" hulls, it gets very blurry for me.

Cheers!

David

 

[Potashminer]

I am relatively in-experienced in reloading shot shells, compared to others that will post here, but, as I understand - shotshells are designed with a specific maximum average pressure. Shotguns designed to handle that. Is very low compared to centerfire rifles - so there are NO home reloader clues about pressure - until your shotgun comes apart. So every reference that I have here says to follow a published shotshell load, exactly - do NOT substitute components - that is only way that you know that your shotgun will safely handle your loads.

I know of no "one place" for all information - currently I have Lyman Shotshell Reloading Manual, pages that I have printed from Hodgdon's reloading website, etc. Several manuals by PBI of their pressure tested loads with mostly their BPI components, but not always. Is part of the "game" - to find a reputable, pressure tested recipe and then to find the exact components that the recipe used. Getting a bunch of hulls or wads given to you is not always a "gift", if you can not find a recipe that calls for them. I suspect there are some guys who do substitute, and will claim they know what they are doing - more power to them, I guess - I do not know what I can substitute or not, so I don't do that. Regardless how "cheap" the components that I found are. My shotguns cost a damn site more, and I will not risk damaging them to save a few dollars on components.

About the only "cheat" that I have done, is that I read in multiple places that the 28 gauge Challenger hulls that I have, are actually Chedditte hulls - so I load them indiscriminately as if their head stamp said "Chedditte" - about as far as I have gone ... Multiple people will post that Chedditte are low quality - for the quantity of them that I have and the amount that I shoot them - in my lifetime, I will likely only reload them once. Good enough I think. I am also aware there will be people here that will go through 500 rounds a weekend - so they will probably want "better" hulls, at least that last longer for multiple re-loads.

 

[huntingfish]

I am relatively in-experienced in reloading shot shells, compared to others that will post here, but, as I understand - shotshells are designed with a specific maximum average pressure. Shotguns designed to handle that. Is very low compared to centerfire rifles - so there are NO home reloader clues about pressure - until your shotgun comes apart. So every reference that I have here says to follow a published shotshell load, exactly - do NOT substitute components - that is only way that you know that you shotgun will safely handle your loads.

I know of no "one place" for all information - currently I have Lyman Shotshell Reloading Manual, pages that I have printed from Hodgdon's reloading website, etc. Several manuals by PBI f their pressure tested loads with mostly their BPI components, but not always. Is part of the "game" - to find a reputable, pressure tested recipe and then to find the exact components that the recipe used. Getting a bunch of hulls given to you is not always a "gift", if you can not find a recipe that calls for them. I suspect there are some guys who do substitute, and will claim they know what they are doing - more power to them, I guess - I do not know what I can substitute or not, so I don't do that. Regardless how "cheap" the components that I found are. My shotguns cost a damn site more, and I will not risk damaging them to save a few dollars on components.

after reading the Lyman manual, it was pretty clear that substitution a component (ANY component) was NOT something I wanted to play with hehe

 

[Bigbubba]

The first thing you should do is buy a reloading manual that discusses shot shell reloading.

When you say the recipe needs to be followed to the "T" you are correct.
So that means a specific hull, specific primer, specific wad, & shot load combined with the specific amount of the powder listed will produce X amount of pressure. Change anything and you have changed the pressure.

Wads and hulls are interchangeable but you will get different pressure, which is not necessarily safe.
So a load with a AA hull might produce a different pressure than a STS hull, all other components being equal.
It won't matter so much for Trap loads but it will matter for heavy hunting loads.

My experience with AA hulls was that I could get 10+ reloads from them (for trap loads)
I was always using the same AA hulls, wads, primers, shot and powder.
If I were you I would get some hulls and stick with them.

You will also note some hulls have a 6 point crimp and some and 8 point crimp
So make sure you have you machine set accordingly

You would have to reset your machine to swap between 2 3/4 & 3" loads. You might find it easier to stick with one size.

Pay attention as (unlike rifle loads) it is very easy to double charge a shot shell.
Especially on a progressive, not so much on a single stage loader.

I would suggest starting loading light loads until you get the hang of it and then move on to heavier hunting loads.
Setting the wad column too deep is no good, too high is no good either...loading shells is a bit finicky to get set up but once it is set up its good to go.

Good luck.

 

[kevin g]

Bubba is 100% correct...Published shotshell data should be followed to the letter. They've been proof tested.

Hodgdon's Data Center is a great place to search and research loads. You can write to (email) Alliant Powder company and they'll send you their current load data book free - gratis !! Has both shot shell and rifle info in it.

Factory 8 point crimps are normally found on target loads...factory 6 point on hunting loads. You CAN put hunting loads into 8 pt crimped hulls!

Remington and Winchester hulls are tapered and require a lead in edge tapered wad. Remington's are still one pc compression formed hulls, and reload great ! The new Winchester's are now the HS (high strength) 2 pc hulls. They also load great, but sometimes you may have to muck with your crimp settings on your loader to get them to close up properly compared to the Remington's.
Cheddite's, Federal's, Rio's are straight walled hulls and have more volume and are 2 pc construction. Cheddite's have been around for a long time..some like em..some don't. If, you choose to load them, and want some real time new data, you can buy a Cheddite specific loading manual from BPI...has all the gauges listed. Only draw back is they only list their own in house (BPI) wads as components.
Will Bilozirs Fine guns is the Canadian distributor for BPI products.

I think you're going to really enjoy rolling your own 20 ga stuff !

Glad my uncle showed me how to in the mid 70's..all he had were hammers, wooden dowels, OS, US, OP fiber wads and brass hulls...he loaded SSG's to take care of the seals that were tearing apart mackeral traps and net twine. If he could only see the machines we have doing it today...lol

 

[cosmic]

I think you need to focus on wads and hulls to start. As you seem reluctant to purchase loaded shells as a source for hulls, put an ad in the EE. Pre-owned Winchester AA-HS or Remington would be a good place to start. If you go on the Hodgdon website, as you have been encouraged to several times, you can find out what wads work. If you cant get OEM, get the Claybuster or similar aftermarket that suit the chosen hull. Again, the EE may help you.
Shot is generally sold in 25 lb bags, so the idea of multiple loads with different sizes of plated shot gets expensive and complicated.You could do everything you want with #6 lead shot - you are overthinking what you need. Focus on one load to start. Get proficient at setting up your machine. Some people never get the knack of reloading and abandon the effort, as often seen on the EE.

 

[Bigbubba]

You could do everything you want with #6 lead shot - you are overthinking what you need. Focus on one load to start. Get proficient at setting up your machine. Some people never get the knack of reloading and abandon the effort, as often seen on the EE.

this is a good plan....

I would start with target loads...you could used those for Grouse as well.

Then Pheasant loads - more shot, different wad, probably be able to use same powder (diff amount)

In case it wasn't explained, if you are shooting different loads - say 1 1/8 oz target, 1 1/4 oz hunting generally you need to different wads.

 

[Alex McKr]

huntingfish: PLenty of good advice, so far. About the only thing I might add, is to start with the load(s) that you expect to use, the most. As already mentioned, target/grouse loads often interchange. Start there. Once you have a good handle on loading procedures...then start to experiment with other loads.

Likewise shot choice. Hard lead shot brings down thin-skinned grouse just as easily as plated shot. But if you prefer the performance of plated shot, then use it with confidence. Grouse often being taken at very close range, shot pattern density (consistency) and choke choice being more important. In which case, your choice of #7.5...or even #8 shot, is a good one. A lively gun between the hands is good, too!

I have never observed any real difference in the amount of meat damage(feathers into the meat, etc.), between unplated vs plated shot. Neither with steel or bismuth shot. Having loaded and hunted with all of them.

Nor does the type of plating(nickle vs copper) seem to make any difference. Where plated shot really shines, is in its ability to hold consistent patterns at long range. A real advantage in pheasant hunting....where shots can often stretch out there. In this case, I would recommend plated shot. For the rest of your needs, either #6 or # 7.5 lead shot will deliver the desired results.

As Cosmic recommends.....don't overthink this. Pick one load you'll use most often. Then build from there.

Al

ps: Don't get hung up on hull brand. Challenger(Cheddite) hulls work very well for hunting loads. As for the rest: Win. AA-HS, Rem. STS or Game Club hulls, as well as Federal Gold Medal and Target hulls all perform well. Use what you have the most of and go from there. Also: Understand the differences between hull types, ie: tapered vs straight. This will be helpful in making wise component choices.

 

[cosmic]

Since the OP has essentially nothing in stock, he has the good fortune (?) of being able to start from scratch. Most shotgun reloaders get into it to support high-volume target shooting. Based on the OP's posts, he is a recreational upland hunter in la belle province, so no 50 yard pheasant shots for him. So what is a realistic number of shells he is likely to go through a year, say +/- 100?
In this scenario, even a hundred Cheddite hulls would last a few years. (BTW - The only virgin hulls and primers that seem to be available are Cheddite). 7/8 oz loads, Federal or Clone wads (available), Longshot powder (available), #6 lead shot (available) ....

 

[huntingfish]

I think you need to focus on wads and hulls to start. As you seem reluctant to purchase loaded shells as a source for hulls, put an ad in the EE. Pre-owned Winchester AA-HS or Remington would be a good place to start. If you go on the Hodgdon website, as you have been encouraged to several times, you can find out what wads work. If you cant get OEM, get the Claybuster or similar aftermarket that suit the chosen hull. Again, the EE may help you.
Shot is generally sold in 25 lb bags, so the idea of multiple loads with different sizes of plated shot gets expensive and complicated.You could do everything you want with #6 lead shot - you are overthinking what you need. Focus on one load to start. Get proficient at setting up your machine. Some people never get the knack of reloading and abandon the effort, as often seen on the EE.

Thanks Cosmic! I just want to confirm that I've been lurking on the Hodgdon website for the past few days indeed. Can't say that I understand and memorize everything that I see there just yet though.

 

[huntingfish]

Since the OP has essentially nothing in stock, he has the good fortune (?) of being able to start from scratch. Most shotgun reloaders get into it to support high-volume target shooting. Based on the OP's posts, he is a recreational upland hunter in la belle province, so no 50 yard pheasant shots for him. So what is a realistic number of shells he is likely to go through a year, say +/- 100?
In this scenario, even a hundred Cheddite hulls would last a few years. (BTW - The only virgin hulls and primers that seem to be available are Cheddite). 7/8 oz loads, Federal or Clone wads (available), Longshot powder (available), #6 lead shot (available) ....

Last year I bought a clay thrower to practice wingshooting. But it's not going to be a 2000 shot per week-end deal. Probably more like 4-5 boxes of clays a year for target shooting.

This is my last year of my bachelor's...I plan on hunting upland pretty hard this autumn though! ;-)

And, I have learned that there is a ZEC (controlled exploitation zone) nearby that releases a few pheasants near Quebec City and I'd love to go try that out. But realistically...if I shoot 25 shots per autumn on trying to bag a few pheasants, it'll be a busy year.

David

 

[cosmic]

OP - If you are hunting pheasants without a trained dog, I doubt you'll go through a box of shells throughout the season. There are private preserves that raise and release pheasants for hunters. FYI - They charge ~ 25$ per bird released, and offer a guide c/w dog for about 75$. If you get a few wingshooters together it becomes quite manageable, even for a student. You'll quickly find how good of a wingshooter you are... BTW - Pheasants dont like 1200 fps, 7/8 oz of #6 hard lead, 20 gauge loads. Neither do partridge or rabbits.

 

[huntingfish]

Since the OP has essentially nothing in stock, he has the good fortune (?) of being able to start from scratch. Most shotgun reloaders get into it to support high-volume target shooting. Based on the OP's posts, he is a recreational upland hunter in la belle province, so no 50 yard pheasant shots for him. So what is a realistic number of shells he is likely to go through a year, say +/- 100?
In this scenario, even a hundred Cheddite hulls would last a few years. (BTW - The only virgin hulls and primers that seem to be available are Cheddite). 7/8 oz loads, Federal or Clone wads (available), Longshot powder (available), #6 lead shot (available) ....

I was told that finding components at this moment in time would be challenging, so I accept that. I will have to roll with what's available instead of insisting on using component XYZ.

 

[huntingfish]

OP - If you are hunting pheasants without a trained dog, I doubt you'll go through a box of shells throughout the season. There are private preserves that raise and release pheasants for hunters. FYI - They charge ~ 25$ per bird released, and offer a guide c/w dog for about 75$. If you get a few wingshooters together it becomes quite manageable, even for a student. You'll quickly find how good of a wingshooter you are... BTW - Pheasants dont like 1200 fps, 7/8 oz of #6 hard lead, 20 gauge loads. Neither do partridge or rabbits.

The only thing I "know" (and I use the term loosely) about pheasants, is what Prairie Storm ammo offers for use on pheasants. So, #4 or #5 of high velocity ammo (fired once from a lightweight Stevens 555 12ga...t'was no fun). As with all things, I'm sure there's a lot of marketing hype in those shells.

Still, I'd love to try it one time! Been looking at videos on YT and it seems like a lot of fun.