RCBS Chargemaster

[Tokay444]

Some days are like that RJ. A number of years back as part of a reloading equipment upgrade, I opted to get a model 1500 RCBS ChargeMaster Scale & Dispenser Combo. Still have it, functions well and NO complaints.

But you're not cutting a kernel of powder into 20 pieces!! You won't get you participation ribbon!

 

[jimbo14]

Interesting topic to a newb like me. Minimal experience developing loads on my .223. Moving to 6BR soon and I’d like to create solid ammo, faster than I am with my Gempro 250. Looking at scales and other equipment right now, hence looking here.

When I see clear nodes represented by flatter slopes on my charge vs velocity graphs, I’m just not going to be thinking about cutting kernels. There was a comment above that seemed to frame these flat spots as reloading errors, but I see the same flat spot in the same approx range with three different powders; same flat spot velocity range within a few fps.

Maybe I’ll retest the ammo with my new chrono, because it’s more accurate. Still, it’s +/- 0.1% which is an ES of 5.4 at 2700fps, even if my ammo were perfect clones. My old chrono was +/- 0.5% which is an ES of 27fps.

Stuff like this is why staring at numbers only does so much, but the only thing that really matters is can you hit what you want?

 

[Mystic Precision]

Interesting topic to a newb like me. Minimal experience developing loads on my .223. Moving to 6BR soon and I’d like to create solid ammo, faster than I am with my Gempro 250. Looking at scales and other equipment right now, hence looking here.

When I see clear nodes represented by flatter slopes on my charge vs velocity graphs, I’m just not going to be thinking about cutting kernels. There was a comment above that seemed to frame these flat spots as reloading errors, but I see the same flat spot in the same approx range with three different powders; same flat spot velocity range within a few fps.

Maybe I’ll retest the ammo with my new chrono, because it’s more accurate. Still, it’s +/- 0.1% which is an ES of 5.4 at 2700fps, even if my ammo were perfect clones. My old chrono was +/- 0.5% which is an ES of 27fps.

Stuff like this is why staring at numbers only does so much, but the only thing that really matters is can you hit what you want?

You are one of the few that understand machines have error ... so trying to debate data that is within the error of the machine is kind of silly. BUT, lots want to debate this.

Watch the target downrange (200 min, 300 better) and see how the bullets land vs conditions vs powder charge. Very quickly you will see the load that shoots best... and often, it will have the 'larger' ES/SD numbers. Why I don't use a chronie when I am load testing... it is a distraction and the time taken to note the numbers means I am not watching conditions and putting lead downrange as fast as possible.

With a 223 (or any other small case), you will see affects on target per 0.1gr of charge weight. That was when I made the investment in the FX120i and have used it ever since. Gempro drifts way too much

you can play with seating depths but in general, they are doing the same thing so as long as you hold one variable constant, you can tune the other and get the same thing (pretty much the same thing).

Lots more to discuss and the above will likely bring all sorts of screaming and yelling so will leave it at that.

Watch the target (placed much further away then 100) and plot EVERY shot... it will become real clear what load shoots consistently well.

Good luck.

Jerry

 

[ALBERTA BOY]

Before Christmas I bought a chargemaster lite. It was junk. Trying a few different powders: I would tell it to dispense, say, 50gr and it would claim 50Gr. Ok. So I verify it on my other digital scale which matches check weights exactly. 50.4!!! Check it on another digital scale. 50.4! Beam scale: 50.4!!! Now put it back on the chargemaster that just dispensed it: 50.6!!!! It just said it was 50.0 when it dispensed it now it says it's .6 over and that's not even correct.

Thinking I got a lemon, I returned it for another one. It behaved almost exactly the same. Dangerous unusable junk. Yes, I calibrated it. Yes, I let it warm up. No, there was no interferance. I know this because my other digital scales work fine in the same location.

So I returned that one as defective and exchanged it for a Lyman Gen 6. What do you know, it's awesome. Dispenses, if anything 0.1 low or bang on. Scale matches all other scales. You can lift the freshly dispensed charge off and set it down and it will still read the same number (unlike the RCBS). I don't know if maybe they had a bad batch or what but I won't touch that crap again.

 

[Tokay444]

Before Christmas I bought a chargemaster lite. It was junk. Trying a few different powders: I would tell it to dispense, say, 50gr and it would claim 50Gr. Ok. So I verify it on my other digital scale which matches check weights exactly. 50.4!!! Check it on another digital scale. 50.4! Beam scale: 50.4!!! Now put it back on the chargemaster that just dispensed it: 50.6!!!! It just said it was 50.0 when it dispensed it now it says it's .6 over and that's not even correct.

Thinking I got a lemon, I returned it for another one. It behaved almost exactly the same. Dangerous unusable junk. Yes, I calibrated it. Yes, I let it warm up. No, there was no interferance. I know this because my other digital scales work fine in the same location.

So I returned that one as defective and exchanged it for a Lyman Gen 6. What do you know, it's awesome. Dispenses, if anything 0.1 low or bang on. Scale matches all other scales. You can lift the freshly dispensed charge off and set it down and it will still read the same number (unlike the RCBS). I don't know if maybe they had a bad batch or what but I won't touch that crap again.

There’s a high degree of likelihood that the physical scales are made but the same company.
My 1500 works as advertised.

 

[Maple57]

You are one of the few that understand machines have error ... so trying to debate data that is within the error of the machine is kind of silly. BUT, lots want to debate this.

Watch the target downrange (200 min, 300 better) and see how the bullets land vs conditions vs powder charge. Very quickly you will see the load that shoots best... and often, it will have the 'larger' ES/SD numbers. Why I don't use a chronie when I am load testing... it is a distraction and the time taken to note the numbers means I am not watching conditions and putting lead downrange as fast as possible.

With a 223 (or any other small case), you will see affects on target per 0.1gr of charge weight. That was when I made the investment in the FX120i and have used it ever since. Gempro drifts way too much

you can play with seating depths but in general, they are doing the same thing so as long as you hold one variable constant, you can tune the other and get the same thing (pretty much the same thing).

Lots more to discuss and the above will likely bring all sorts of screaming and yelling so will leave it at that.

Watch the target (placed much further away then 100) and plot EVERY shot... it will become real clear what load shoots consistently well.

Good luck.

Jerry

There's a fundamental problem with Jerry logic. Ignoring any single variable and focusing on the combined effect of all variables prevents you from problem solving root cause. If you are trying to measure velocity, then measure velocity. If you are trying to measure accuracy then do it at 100 yards rather than 300 so you are not getting a weather report.

Once you have both accuracy and velocity pretty much nailed down, then go out farther. Don't start chasing your tail by developing loads at long range when you dont know how to compensate for wind and light changes. You learn that stuff after you have an accurate rifle at 100 yards with a low velocity spread. If it aint accurate at 100, it sure as hell is not accurate at 300.

Sure, once you have that, then over many many rounds at long range you may find some statistical preference, buy holy hell, its foolish advice to tell guys to start at 300.

 

[huntingfamily]

.....

 

[Tokay444]

There's a fundamental problem with Jerry logic. Ignoring any single variable and focusing on the combined effect of all variables prevents you from problem solving root cause. If you are trying to measure velocity, then measure velocity. If you are trying to measure accuracy then do it at 100 yards rather than 300 so you are not getting a weather report.

Once you have both accuracy and velocity pretty much nailed down, then go out farther. Don't start chasing your tail by developing loads at long range when you dont know how to compensate for wind and light changes. You learn that stuff after you have an accurate rifle at 100 yards with a low velocity spread. If it aint accurate at 100, it sure as hell is not accurate at 300.

Sure, once you have that, then over many many rounds at long range you may find some statistical preference, buy holy hell, its foolish advice to tell guys to start at 300.

Don’t you have bungee cord bipods to pack? I can’t imagine they do that on their own, but no doubt they sell themselves.

 

[Mystic Precision]

Funny how a target tells no lies AND does all the math for you.

Wind flags... that be a thing and quite useful. I use them for identifying wind conditions.

And I watch them to help me understand what I am about to launch a pointy shiny thing into.

but hey, focus on one thing until you figure it out... cause there is a velocity stage at an F class match.

Jerry

PS sarcasm aside, those actually trying to learn... there are so many variables that trying to 'isolate' them is silly. Make sure that you are resting the rifle as stable as possible, take your time and make sure each shot is done as well as you can, try and monitor the conditions and note that for each shot AND where that shot landed. Keep that barrel reasonably cool and do your best to minimize any shooter error.

The target is going to tell you what is happening with your load and load development. By keeping an eye on how each shot in your group lands, you will see desired patterns. If your load and gun are up to the task, punching an itty bitty group at long range pretty much tells you that what you are doing is working.



Kinda like this (team mate shooting his rifle). You dont need a super computer to understand this load is working.... and at this point, it really doesn't matter what all those other devices might say.

Simplify.... and there are alot of shooters that aren't afraid of a little distance... but you do what makes you feel safe....

Jerry

 

[ALBERTA BOY]

There’s a high degree of likelihood that the physical scales are made but the same company.
My 1500 works as advertised.

funny you should mention that. Lyman just recalled two of their scales sold in 2020 and 2021. It seems the chinese manufacturer changed some components without asking and the scales would read static weights well but not trickeled weights - just like the chargemaster lite. I have a feeling the CML of current production has the same problem: likely the same supplier in China. Thankfully, the Lyman Gen 6 isn't affected.

I did have one of the lyman scales which I use only for confirming already weighed charges so I didn't notice the issue. I called them today and they are sending me a new one plus a second pocket scale as a token of good will. No need to send the old one back: just destroy it. Way to go Lyman! RCBS on the other hand can suck it. Having had issues with the chargemaster and their terrible hand primer, I tried calling them but it's simply not possible to get through to anyone.

 

[Longbow]

Funny how a target tells no lies AND does all the math for you.

Wind flags... that be a thing and quite useful. I use them for identifying wind conditions.

And I watch them to help me understand what I am about to launch a pointy shiny thing into.

but hey, focus on one thing until you figure it out... cause there is a velocity stage at an F class match.

Jerry

PS sarcasm aside, those actually trying to learn... there are so many variables that trying to 'isolate' them is silly. Make sure that you are resting the rifle as stable as possible, take your time and make sure each shot is done as well as you can, try and monitor the conditions and note that for each shot AND where that shot landed. Keep that barrel reasonably cool and do your best to minimize any shooter error.

The target is going to tell you what is happening with your load and load development. By keeping an eye on how each shot in your group lands, you will see desired patterns. If your load and gun are up to the task, punching an itty bitty group at long range pretty much tells you that what you are doing is working.

View attachment 564970

Kinda like this (team mate shooting his rifle). You dont need a super computer to understand this load is working.... and at this point, it really doesn't matter what all those other devices might say.

Simplify.... and there are alot of shooters that aren't afraid of a little distance... but you do what makes you feel safe....

Jerry

Nice shooting for sure....but can I actually believe it ...being measured with Mastercraft Calipers ...LOL

 

[Mystic Precision]

Nice shooting for sure....but can I actually believe it ...being measured with Mastercraft Calipers ...LOL

Oh, I am sure there are some debating if that is actually a 0.52" group vs a 0.50 group... thus the info is flawed. Those are the ones that can't see the forest for the trees.

This combo has proven to be reliably accurate to 800yds... Hopefully, team mate will have time this summer so we can reach out towards 1500yds.

that's alot of fun.

Jerry

 

[remington jim]

Hi Jerry Being as its MY thread can i ask you if you or nay one you know OR ? have any experience with the NEW RCBS MATCHMASTER powder dispenser ? Thxs RJ

 

[Mystic Precision]

RJ, I am happy to offer either the RCBS or Lyman products... I don't use them.

If you have this type of funds, get the FX120i/trickler combo. Components and shooting is simply too expensive now to hope a very expensive machine might work.

What is the difference in price? How many rds will it take to equal and then exceed that difference.

ymmv

Jerry