First Pistol (Update)

Okay will do; so I guess the real deciding factor is whether or not it feels natural to me.

So from a strictly mechanical point of view, which (out of 1911 and USP): has parts the most available, is more affordable, is generally more reliable AND accurate, and which one is actually cheaper? Also, who makes an affordable 1911 (that is preferrably not made in China) (which STI model)?

Thanks for all the help guys! It might seem early for me to be researching this, but if some of you remember from years ago I researched which rifle to buy and decided about two years before I actually got it.

relliot: Could you PM me some info? Thanks!
 
which (out of 1911 and USP): has parts the most available, is more affordable, is generally more reliable AND accurate, and which one is actually cheaper?
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Last I heard in Canada it's hard to get HK parts...but since there are tons of 1911 out there you can get parts for them anywhere, not too mention all the firearm choices you have. About accuracy IMO a quality 1911 will outshoot the USP. Reliability will depend on the 1911 you get.
 
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Hmm...reading up a number of reviews and comparisons, the general consensus I get is that a USP will shoot better out of the box and is generally more reliable (depending on which 1911 is bought). So if I were to compare a USP and a 1911 of equal cash value, would the 1911 come out on top? I'm also reading that USP parts don't need much replacing, so I don't think that'll be much of an issue.

Edit: I just had a look at this torture test: http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Item, and that definately ups my respect for Glocks. I'm not really sure if this is enough to change my mind though; what do you guys think?

-Rohann
 
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Kimber's new pricing is tempting....Might pick up a Custom Stainless II .45 myself; should only be just over $900! Hopefuly Taurus PT1911 will be availabe here soon :D

S&W 1911 looks pretty good as well, not a huge fan of STI's basic line up though...
 
I'm looking for something preferrably more in the $700-800 range though, so I think S&W, Colt, Springfield and most of STI are out. Anyone have experience with Kimbers? How do they work?

-Rohann
 
Rohann said:
I'm looking for something preferrably more in the $700-800 range though, so I think S&W, Colt, Springfield and most of STI are out. Anyone have experience with Kimbers? How do they work?

-Rohann
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Rohann,

Just buy any gun in your list. It does not matter what you buy now, we
all know that you'll be buying the rest guns in your list anyway, so don't
fight it, buy the one that best fits you and start saving for the next one :D
 
Rohann said:
I'm looking for something preferrably more in the $700-800 range though, so I think S&W, Colt, Springfield and most of STI are out. Anyone have experience with Kimbers? How do they work?

-Rohann
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Shop around and you will find some good price and I will pm you some more informations.

Trigun
 
af_newbie - True enough! However I want to make a worthwhile purchase for my first pistol, so I'm looking for something with the above qualifications (accuracy, reliability, etc.) for something to practice with and as being my "primary" handgun.
Thanks for the PM's, I'll have a look around. How do the Kimbers work? Do you guys have any experience with them? There are so many 1911's to choose from!

This may be another thread in itself, but what do you want to look for in a 1911 (barrel length, etc.)? I like longer barrels personally (but not the "extended" ones).

-Rohann
 
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Get a 9mm one. Personally, I'd say CZ 75/85B as they ARE accurate, reliable and cheap and ammo is cheap for practicing purpose. It'll last you all your life and you'll still like shooting it when you are 70+ y.o.
Do you know how much 45ACP ammo is? Check the prices, it's almost 2x 9mm price. And going thru 200-300 rounds each range visit may make you broke in a month and shooting less won't be practice but playing.
 
Rohann said:
I'm thinking 9mm as it's the cheapest out of 10mm, .40S&W and .45 (I'd like a .45 but the ammo seems kinda scarce and pretty pricey nowadays, and 9mm is very widely available).
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I'm just wondering about specifics - what make/model, specifications, etc.
Also, what should I expect in terms of reliability, accuracy, etc.?

-Rohann
 
CeeZer said:
Get a 9mm one. Personally, I'd say CZ 75/85B as they ARE accurate, reliable and cheap and ammo is cheap for practicing purpose. It'll last you all your life and you'll still like shooting it when you are 70+ y.o.
Do you know how much 45ACP ammo is? Check the prices, it's almost 2x 9mm price. And going thru 200-300 rounds each range visit may make you broke in a month and shooting less won't be practice but playing.
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Very true! not cheap even reload them. At a busy range, it is not easy to find the brass back after fired.

Trigun
 
Most guns are reliable as long as you are not buying the cheapest guns out there. There are sometimes issues with individual guns, typically if they are new. Sometimes they need to be shot a bit in order to smooth things out.

Accuracy is often dependent on tolerances. A gun with tighter tolerances (all other things being equal) will be more accurate, and often less reliable. The looser the tolerances the less it could be effected by crud buildup. The most reliable gun in the world is typically not the most accurate.

A lot of the guns available are designed and built for real life carry situations. For this application you want reliability first and accuracy second. If the gun is typically sold as a carry gun then it may not be as accurate as a gun marketed for competition use only.

Some guns are more sensitive to bullet shape than others. I've got a Colt Gold Cup National Match (45 ACP) that does not like certain bullet styles. The same rounds that I can't feed in my Colt I have absolutely no problem with in my S&W model 745. Unfortunately I don't like shooting that gun. It just doesn't feel right to me. A more accurate gun than the Colt also. If you stick to round nose bullets you should be ok.

Magazine can be an issue too. I had to put a slight bend in the follower spring in three mags I bought recently in order to get them to feed the last round properly and push up the slide lock. A minor tweak and and the world was back in order again.

Some guns are more sensitive to malfunctions if you do not hold them firmly. Most locked breach guns can have this issue but some are better than others. This is not necessarily a fault of the gun but rather on the shooter's technique.

CZ85target.jpg


The above is a factory test target for my CZ-85 that came with my gun. They use the same kind of electronic target as used in major shooting competitions. From the top shot to the bottom measures 5 inches. The five shots grouped together are less than three inches apart. I assume that CZ employee 7148 is not a bad shot but who knows how much deviation was due to him. In either case he probably shoots better than me (I don't shoot much). This is not a bullseye gun.
 
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Rod B said:
Most CZs will shoot far better than the test target indicates.

I believe that the target is simply a test of function & ensuring that the gun shoots to point of aim.
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All my CZs shoot smaller groups than the factory targets that
came with them.
 
Rudy_H: Thanks for the info!
No I'm definately not planning on going for the cheapest (i.e. Norinco); I'm looking at Springfield (hardly any 9mm's though), Kimber (same problem), and am trying to find others.
Well while accuracy comes first in my books (for my purposes anyway), I'm looking for something that'll kind of "go along" with my 700P for tac matches and possibly IDPA-type matches (I don't know much on this topic, but for "scenario" type "tactical" matches). So while I don't need a pistol that shoots tiny groups at 25m or that I can shoot 10 000 rounds with after being run over by a truck without having a stoppage, I want something that's a healthy balance of accuracy and reliability (i.e. my 700P; not the most accurate rifle, nor the most durable, but works well for my purposes).
The reason I ask this is because reading up reviews for the HK USP, I've heard that it shoots quite accurately, but can go through thousands of rounds without an action-related stoppage.
So do you know of any 9mm 1911's that have a balance of both?
Hope this makes it clearer!

Thanks a lot,
-Rohann
 
If it comes down to that I can't find a decent 1911 in 9mm then I just may, but I'd like it if I can get something with more widely available parts and something that's easy to modify (but then again, if it doesn't need modification...).

On a slightly irrelevant note, what pistol did Cruise use in Collateral? There's the silenced .22, the stainless S&W? (what was that one), and then what looks to be a USP
collateral_xl_04.jpg
.

-Rohann
 
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I don't want to discourage you from a 1911 in 9 mm (I love the 1911), but you should consider how much is the reduced capacity going to hamper you. I don't shoot IPSC but I do shoot CDP (IDPA). I believe you will only get 9 rounds into a standard magazine. That will be one short per magazine compared to other 9 mm / 40 cal guns.

If you shoot a 1911 in 45 then you are competing against others with the same magazine limitation. If you are shooting 9 mm in a 1911 you will be shooting against guys with guns with 10 round mags.

One guy I know does shoot 9 mm in a single stacked gun (S&W model 39) but he is not concerned about the capacity disadvantage. But he shoots different guns depending on what he feels like shooting that day.

As far as widely available parts, there are lots for the 1911 but less for a 1911 in 9 mm. Still enough out there. It depends on what you may want to change in the gun. Other than grips there is not a lot of need to change things on most guns. Sure you can change springs and triggers but on most guns there is not a lot of need.

The way I look at it is if I buy a gun that I don't need to change parts on I can spend that money on ammo. Of course you want to have parts available for any gun you buy but there typically is not a need for a hell of a lot of sources for the same parts. Not bad to have options but not a big deal.

It doesn't hurt to have some spare parts. If something fails you may be able to fix it quickly. Maybe not. I take a different approach. Carry a spare gun. :D
 
Oh okay, so it's really not that much of an advantage then.
Yeah I'm having trouble finding a 1911 I like under $1000 in 9mm, so I'm starting to get a bit discouraged in that sense (I'm leaning more towards a USP or maybe something else). So there really isn't much of an advantage to getting a 1911 in 9mm then?

That's a good way to look at it; it makes a lot of sense. And I don't think I'll be customizing anything anytime soon anyway.
How difficult is it to modify the trigger on a USP? Does it need modifying?

-Rohann
 
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