Oh NO, I ruined my barrel with a bronze bore brush....

cycbb486 said:
How does rechambering get rid of throat erosion? It can if you run the new chamber to the point where the fire cracking is eliminated. That is just not in the immediate throat area. You may have to shorten the barrel a couple of inches. Maybe if you are shooting a cartridge that would permit that and still give the results you want may be worth it. Barrel burner cartridges, heat kills a barrel quickly.
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Longer cartridge. I mentioned those in an earlier post.

mikeyb said:
Interesting take, how would a 6.5-.284 Norma work out? Would it clean up the Creedmoor chamber? It should work alright in a short action, fit in the same bolt face and magazines, and cook off only a little more powder.
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kthomas said:
It's not only the throat that gets eroded, and you can only set a barrel back so far.
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Depending how far the erosion goes down the barrel (but by definition "throat" is a specific location) dictates how long the new chambered round would need to be and yes, set back will be an issue unless the barrel is a straight tube or is straight for the first several inches.

I'm really curious about the subject and will only resolve my curiosities by probing all my rifle barrels with a bore scope.
 
kthomas said:
... Feel free to spend the machining money and try it, I would be surprised if you get much more then another 1,000 rounds out of it. May as well spend that machining cost on a new barrel that will have much more life left to it.
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A couple of hours of my time using machinery and tooling that were paid for a long time ago in exchange for another thousand rounds? Seems like a good deal to me.
 
I use “take off” f-class barrels for my own prs builds. General take 6” or 8” off and they are like brand new.
Unless a barrel has been meticulously scrubbed of carbon on a regular basis and show no signs of carbon I won’t be putting my own reamer in to set it back. Hard carbon and sharp hss don’t mix well.
Joe
 
tiriaq said:
A couple of hours of my time using machinery and tooling that were paid for a long time ago in exchange for another thousand rounds? Seems like a good deal to me.
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If you have your own lathe and equipment to perform the work, then the equation obviously changes. At that point its just costing you your own time.

For those that have to pay ~$300+ for the machining work, to get maybe another 1,000 rounds out of it (which is very optimistic and dependent on the current round count of said barrel, what cartridge you are shooting, etc.), then that money is better spent on a new barrel in which you will get much more rounds out of that machine work cost.
 
I bought a Teslong bore scope recently and it was well worth the money. Really shows you how clean your barrels really are. In my experience it’s almost impossible to get a barrel really clean with patches alone. Tried the nylon brushes, next to useless IMO. I can run patch after patch until they come clean, then run a few passes with a bronze brush and the cleaning starts all over again. Solvents work ok for copper but not so much for carbon deposits, bronze brush works better for that.
 
What is a properly lapped barrel?
I have seen barrels worn out from cleaning. I don't clean unless it needs to be. If you clean it and it does not shoot better then why? Obviously if it needs to be cleaned for preservation that is different.
I have never seen a chrome lined barrel that shoots well.
 
Ian Robertson said:
What is a properly lapped barrel?
I have seen barrels worn out from cleaning. I don't clean unless it needs to be. If you clean it and it does not shoot better then why? Obviously if it needs to be cleaned for preservation that is different.
I have never seen a chrome lined barrel that shoots well.
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Because if you clean regularly then your rifle never gets to the point that it starts opening up at a bad time.

And yes, many a barrel has been ruined through vigorous and improper cleaning.
 
I also think that many barrels have been changed out and ruined from excessive carbon build up.
Leaving large carbon deposits in your barrel will ruin things quicker.
 
"Opening up at a bad time". I don't remember anyone complaining of this. It's not like hot or cold water, it doesn't happen that fast. When we were on the Queen's ammo many cleaned between ranges but it did not help. Once on handloads the truth came out. We have some of the finest shots in the world that clean 308 every 500 rounds.
 
Forgot to mention, all my borescope has proven is that the borescope is really not needed. Some fixate on cleaning when that time would be better spent on the range.
 
Ian Robertson said:
"Opening up at a bad time". I don't remember anyone complaining of this. It's not like hot or cold water, it doesn't happen that fast. When we were on the Queen's ammo many cleaned between ranges but it did not help. Once on handloads the truth came out. We have some of the finest shots in the world that clean 308 every 500 rounds.
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Regular cleaning, if done properly, is not going to hurt anything. Especially if shooting suppressed. Personally, I prefer my barrels to maintain a level of quality of shooting, and regular cleaning maintenance does that. I clean every ~200-250 rounds. But yes, people can and do ruin barrels over improper cleaning. And the more frequently you clean improperly, the quicker you are going to ruin a barrel.

Barrels will open up when too dirty, some more then others. That's probably very dependent on the type of barrel you have, the cartridge you are shooting, the amount of powder, type of powder, etc.

To each their own, I'm certainly not going to tell someone how they should clean their barrel. But its silly to suggest that people shouldn't clean regularly (every ~200-300 rounds) because they will ruin their barrel. The barrel will only be ruined if its done improperly.
 
kthomas said:
Regular cleaning, if done properly, is not going to hurt anything. Especially if shooting suppressed. Personally, I prefer my barrels to maintain a level of quality of shooting, and regular cleaning maintenance does that. I clean every ~200-250 rounds. But yes, people can and do ruin barrels over improper cleaning. And the more frequently you clean improperly, the quicker you are going to ruin a barrel.

Barrels will open up when too dirty, some more then others. That's probably very dependent on the type of barrel you have, the cartridge you are shooting, the amount of powder, type of powder, etc.

To each their own, I'm certainly not going to tell someone how they should clean their barrel. But its silly to suggest that people shouldn't clean regularly (every ~200-300 rounds) because they will ruin their barrel. The barrel will only be ruined if its done improperly.
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Agree 100%
 
Ian Robertson said:
"Opening up at a bad time". I don't remember anyone complaining of this. It's not like hot or cold water, it doesn't happen that fast. When we were on the Queen's ammo many cleaned between ranges but it did not help. Once on handloads the truth came out. We have some of the finest shots in the world that clean 308 every 500 rounds.
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And some of the smallest groups in the world have been shot with barrels that were cleaned after 10 rounds ...
 
joehunt said:
I also think that many barrels have been changed out and ruined from excessive carbon build up.
Leaving large carbon deposits in your barrel will ruin things quicker.
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Hi ! Your a F class shooter - would you explain your Procedure of cleaning your barrels for copper and carbon fouling Please ? Best copper cleaner - Best carbon cleaner - Bronze brushes ? Nylon Brushes ? Parch Material ? etc etc Thxs Joe Hunt
Cheers RJ
 
Remington Jim, I know you did not ask me but I will paste this from another thread on what I do. Hopefully whom you asked will reply.

Cleaning. This gets hashed over and over and over. From I do not clean, to I only clean when needed, to cleaning after every 7 to 10 shots like a majority of BR shooters do. You hear I never use a bronze brush. Etc etc etc....

Factory barrels okay, clean how you wish. Aftermarket custom barrel I treat with a lot of respect. I do though clean all my rifles the same.

My routine is, 3 wet patches with First Choice water based solvent. No need for smelly solvents like Butch's or Montana Extreme. Your significant other will love you as well. Then I hit it with my brush and a stroke for every shot X's 2 with Bore Tech Copper remover. It sits and soaks while I load ammo for my next target. Maybe 15 minutes. Then it is 3 wet patches with First Choice. 2 or 3 to dry chamber and bore. I always caring compressed air. I give a blast into the chamber to make sure there are no broken bristles from the brush. I hate the brush creases on my case shoulders. Finish of with a patch with about 10 drops of Eezox. Push it thru, flip patch, and thru again. Wipe muzzle end and to the line.

After a yardage which is about 50 rounds, with the same cleaning routine i add one more step. This is the step that cuts the Carbon if it is starting to build up. After the brushing with the bronze brush I change brushes and use the Iosso brush loaded with Iosso. This I short stroke the first 4 to 6 inches of the barrel and then full length stroke the barrel. I also spin the brush in the throat area. Iosso is aggressive enough it will chip away at any carbon. I then use the First Choice on the same brush to help speed up the removal of the paste. That is the only other step in cleaning. My Borescope has shown it works. I will tell you just as you have heard if you watched Eric Cortinas interview with Jack Neary, you feel the difference in bore smoothness after using Iosso.

So that is what I do to keep carbon in check. Carbon is bad if let to build up and bake on especially in the throat area. For me I trim with a PMA quick trim after every firing so I never have to worry if the carbon does build up a bit. The neck never grows enough to reach it.

So my take on what works for eliminating or limiting carbon.
 
remington jim said:
Hi ! Your a F class shooter - would you explain your Procedure of cleaning your barrels for copper and carbon fouling Please ? Best copper cleaner - Best carbon cleaner - Bronze brushes ? Nylon Brushes ? Parch Material ? etc etc Thxs Joe Hunt
Cheers RJ
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Hey Jim

I scope the barrel and let it tell me what it needs.
On my f class barrels I clean after ever outing. Usually around 50 rounds.
I use tight patches, nylon bushes, bronze bushes and vfg pellets(I’ve just added)
I start off with hoppe’s and use everything from patchout , CLR (use at your own risk) to JB and Simichrome.
I don’t like to leave carbon build up. I believe if it’s left in to long the hot carbon will permanently damage the bore.
I’ve cross sectioned a few take off f class barrel for the first 6” and always find a massive amount of carbon.
I also use good quality one piece coated rods and bore guides.
I’m only a club level shooter so don’t read in to much if you don’t want.
Eric Cortina has some good videos on the subject and he is a world class f class shooter.
Joe
 
I only shoot for my own challenge and none of my rilfes cost more than $1K. I've used a Teslong for a couple of years now and found that NONE of my rifles were 'really clean' before getting the scope. For Carbon build-up I've got good results with Boretech C4 Carbon solvent, finding I need wayyy less Bronze brushing. I shoot a lot of .22 and the 'ring' comes away quick when hit with C4 first. And I have some Rem-40X compound that I 'lap' all barrels with. Now even my SKS has a shiney bore ;-)
 
joehunt said:
Hey Jim

I scope the barrel and let it tell me what it needs.
On my f class barrels I clean after ever outing. Usually around 50 rounds.
I use tight patches, nylon bushes, bronze bushes and vfg pellets(I’ve just added)
I start off with hoppe’s and use everything from patchout , CLR (use at your own risk) to JB and Simichrome.
I don’t like to leave carbon build up. I believe if it’s left in to long the hot carbon will permanently damage the bore.
I’ve cross sectioned a few take off f class barrel for the first 6” and always find a massive amount of carbon.
I also use good quality one piece coated rods and bore guides.
I’m only a club level shooter so don’t read in to much if you don’t want.
Eric Cortina has some good videos on the subject and he is a world class f class shooter.
Joe
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Great Joe - Thxs for that Info ! One thing in there " CLR " use at your own Risk ?? Please Explain ! Thxs

Cheers Jim
 
remington jim said:
Great Joe - Thxs for that Info ! One thing in there " CLR " use at your own Risk ?? Please Explain ! Thxs

Cheers Jim
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CLR is not friendly to surface finishes and coatings. It's fine on bare stainless.

But if your rifle barrel is blued, nitrided, etc. - it can and will damage the finish, if you let CLR soak on it (or if you are trying to remove carbon from a crown or muzzle device).
 
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