Do you really need a magnum
- Thread starter Isobar1999
- Start date
Listen man, I would continue this petty "back and forth," but there are far more important things going on in Canada right now... our civil liberties are being threatened... use some of.your energy to write to your MP and the Governor General.
Magnums can be loaded down for velocity and recoil, reloading also closes the gap in cost to not much of anything. Bullet choice and placement will also take care of meat concerns. Barrel life doesn't come into play except for a very few shooters so they are all tied at infinity for everyone else.
Maybe the question should be "Do you really need a standard cartridge?"
Maybe the question should be "Do you really need a standard cartridge?"
It's sort of like shot-guns in a way. Even though I have some chambered for 2 3/4" 12 Gauge there isn't a whole lot of logic in it if you're only going to have a couple. You can always go down from 3", but you can't go up from 2 3/4"
Magnums can be loaded down for velocity and recoil, reloading also closes the gap in cost to not much of anything. Bullet choice and placement will also take care of meat concerns. Barrel life doesn't come into play except for a very few shooters so they are all tied at infinity for everyone else.
Maybe the question should be "Do you really need a standard cartridge?"
Got that right! Seems to me that most 308 guys are always trying to get 3006 speed and 3006 guys trying to get magnum speeds.
You can’t make a KCar into a formula 1. Loads on the upper end are ok only if that’s where it shoots best. Hot loads have no place on my shooting bench, get more gun if ya won’t to go faster. My only thing against magnums is at some point enough is enough. I’m not a recoil wimp but I know when to quit. Nothing funnier to me than watching some supper shooter trying to suck back the tears when he’s leaving the bench.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I know this sounds strange and slightly off topic, but one can load 30-06 with 125 grain Accubond and get stellar accuracy with performance much like a 270 with 130 grain ammo.
Good way introduce a novice deer hunter to the 30-06 cartridge.
Good way introduce a novice deer hunter to the 30-06 cartridge.
If you are thinking about a .375 H&H Magnum, then yes.
IMO whatever cartridge that you like and you can shoot proficiently and safely is fine as long as it is suited to the game. I think a .30-06 would probably be fine for almost everything, based on observations of people who actually live in the wild, and live off of it. I wouldn't put up with anything that kicked to the point that it gave me a permanent flinch I couldn't overcome.
If it makes accuracy difficult from field positions, might as well not own it. Nor will I ever use a muzzle brake on a rifle. If anything, we should be fitting moderators, like Europeans and Kiwis, not muzzle brakes.
Again, there is something special about a .375 H&H Magnum... Something special about a .308 too though.
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nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Personally, since I is apparently not approved in a thread asking opinion, shoot what you want. But shoot it well.
Currently "i" have rifles between hornet and Rigby, not counting 45-70 or 22 rimfires. Hunting the interior or peace I definitely took enough gun. Shots were seldom, and could influence your life. My choice, a 375 rum. Once the peace trips became impossible the interior hunts were with 30-06. I have some 240 woodleigh weldcores, handloaded I doubt a bear is able to tell the difference of that going 2350, and a 225 338wm at 2650.
One poster mentioned recoil and meat damage as reasons to not use a magnum. Recoil tolerance can be learned, with tolerance comes accuracy. Really no more meat loss than a standard caliber. The worst damage I ever saw was a 270/130 on a mule deer.
Some of my larger rifles push large and fast projectiles. The 340 Weatherby pushes a 250 partition at 3050, the 375 rum has mostly shot 260 partition at 2975. Whereas the 338 wm would be more accurately thought of as a big bullet at 308/303 speeds, it's a versatile bore...but I didn't buy it to shoot 165's at 3200+.
Right now, I'm on a gulf island. Three ferries and $400 from Vancouver, add another $2k return for fuel, and 2.5 days each way to go to the peace. That's a big commitment, money, equipment, and time. I'm getting one chance, once I get my animal I wish to keep it. Not posting any pictures or starting any threads with hero poses with Yukon/Alaska bulls and a 243.
Obviously my 375 rum is gigantic overkill here. We have the smallest blacktail, 40-60 lbs hanging. The 7x57 I've used is overkill. Of anyone in Kanada I could legitimately start a 223 for deer thread, but I won't. Use enough gun, shoot it well; one good hit from less than ideal angles in field conditions.
Currently "i" have rifles between hornet and Rigby, not counting 45-70 or 22 rimfires. Hunting the interior or peace I definitely took enough gun. Shots were seldom, and could influence your life. My choice, a 375 rum. Once the peace trips became impossible the interior hunts were with 30-06. I have some 240 woodleigh weldcores, handloaded I doubt a bear is able to tell the difference of that going 2350, and a 225 338wm at 2650.
One poster mentioned recoil and meat damage as reasons to not use a magnum. Recoil tolerance can be learned, with tolerance comes accuracy. Really no more meat loss than a standard caliber. The worst damage I ever saw was a 270/130 on a mule deer.
Some of my larger rifles push large and fast projectiles. The 340 Weatherby pushes a 250 partition at 3050, the 375 rum has mostly shot 260 partition at 2975. Whereas the 338 wm would be more accurately thought of as a big bullet at 308/303 speeds, it's a versatile bore...but I didn't buy it to shoot 165's at 3200+.
Right now, I'm on a gulf island. Three ferries and $400 from Vancouver, add another $2k return for fuel, and 2.5 days each way to go to the peace. That's a big commitment, money, equipment, and time. I'm getting one chance, once I get my animal I wish to keep it. Not posting any pictures or starting any threads with hero poses with Yukon/Alaska bulls and a 243.
Obviously my 375 rum is gigantic overkill here. We have the smallest blacktail, 40-60 lbs hanging. The 7x57 I've used is overkill. Of anyone in Kanada I could legitimately start a 223 for deer thread, but I won't. Use enough gun, shoot it well; one good hit from less than ideal angles in field conditions.
AR15meister
CGN Regular
Cooey though I agree with you in theory.....this is a half truth.
If you are a serious hunter and can afford it the thing to do it buy an identical rifle in a small caliber cartridge for practice.
For instance if you shoot a 338 WIN on elk/moose and buy one in .243 or 7mm-08 to shoot at the range and or at smaller animals.
I have a mangum 26 Nosler Christensen Arms. Its too loud, expensive and muzzle blast is crazy for long range sessions (I limit myself to 5-10 rounds) but I also have their .22 which is very similar and use that for practice.
Just something to consider.
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
I agree with that statement but the problem i end up having is i get efficient with the smaller cartridge and realize i don't need the magnum.
I may be mistaken... but isn't your smaller cartridge 8 x 57?
Which was utilized on warplanes and armored vehicles?
Smaller cartridge, huh?
No worry, I've 3 of them...and looking to ream one our to 8 x 63 Patron...but it's not a magnum lol. Just hits like one.
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AR15meister
CGN Regular
LOL.
I get that but there are definite benefits to a magnum. Roy Weatherby felt that the shock of a magnum caliber travelling at high speed was 'crippling' enough to avoid lost animals when situations dictated somehting less than ideal happening, which anyone with experience understands "is part of hunting".
I think that many here (not all) who are saying "you don't need a magnum" have perhaps not been in situations where it is really beneficial. And I mean no disrespect by that.
For instance, you are on a Marco Polo hunt in Kyrgyzstan and your ram is walking towards China and you have literally one chance to anchor the ram you would want a big magnum that will shock the animal at long range and kill it or give you time to send another couple rounds at it.
Or you are on a Stone ram that you have been after for 18 days of sleeping under the stars and out of food and you have one day left. You want that ram to be dead or anchored even if you don't make the ideal shot because you are tired, wet, hungry, injured, etc, etc.
I am not saying a magnum is a good replacement for field craft, getting close, shot placement, etc. I don't think it is.
But when the chips are down and you can shoot a .243 just as well as you shoot a .300 RUM I am taking the RUM all day long. There is a reason why many of the most prolific trophy hunters in the latter half of the 20th century shoot magnums.
I shoot a 26 Nosler for this exact reason. It is the most powerful mountain gun I have lots of experience shooting at all ranges accurately. It absolutely flattens game animals. I can only imagine what a 30 Nosler would do firing a premium bullet from an accurate rifle with a good shooter.
I once chased a wounded Mid Asian Ibex for around 5 hours after another hunter wounded it with a .270 Winchester. I killed it at 644 yards with a single shot from my 26 Nosler as it was walking almost at the top of a mountain. I shooting from below and had no time. It was equal parts luck and skill and I hit the animal high on the shoulder/neck area.
I firmly believe that if I had my old .308 I would not have dropped that animal in its tracks at that distance.
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
Yes the 8x57 is one of the smaller cartridges i hunt with. I have smaller but don't hunt them as often like the 7x64,7x57,6.5x55. My bigger cartridges consist of 9.3x62, 338 Win Mag, 325 WSM. I find my 8x57 to be accurate, efficient, and capable of handling my needs while hunting. All around cartridge. Sometimes the practical side of me kicks in and tells me that's all I need with maybe the 7x64 to match the set. I guess being a gun nut is not always about being practical.
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
I find that if I need to reach out that much further... I need to sharpen up my woodcraft skills. Most times I download mine to lessen the meat damage. I ain't hunting Stone rams for 18 days...shoot, I wander North on foot for 10 min's and I'm good.
So, to avoid going down the wormhole of Hunting vs Long distance shooting... you do you and I'll be me. No doubt the Mod's have already had to clean this thread up at least once... I'm not gonna start it again.
Remember; winning an internet argument is like being the Smartest Kid in Special Class...dubious honor at best.
Good hunting all.
So, to avoid going down the wormhole of Hunting vs Long distance shooting... you do you and I'll be me. No doubt the Mod's have already had to clean this thread up at least once... I'm not gonna start it again.
Remember; winning an internet argument is like being the Smartest Kid in Special Class...dubious honor at best.
Good hunting all.
You NEED a magnum to explode ground hogs to the level I'm satisfied, that's why I love my 338 Lapua. If you'd handicap me with a non magnum round I'd use my 308 with 178gr ELDX at 2900 fps, this combo outshoot any factory 3006 ammo and has less recoil.
