Which manual is right???

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Northman999

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Fellows,

I'm fairly new to reloading and am running into some confusion as I have three manuals (Speer, Hornady and Barnes) and they seem all over the place on velocity. The Speer manual has generally anemic velocities, the Barnes is high, and the Hornady is in the middle. But we're not talking 50 fps difference here, sometimes there is almost 400 fps difference between the Speer and the Barnes manual for the same cartridge, bullet weight and powder and very similar barrel length. Also for some cartridges one manual will list several loads of a certain velocity and another manual has nothing at all that fast. For example the Speer manual has the 6.5x55 with 140 grain bullets topped out at 2600 fps, but the Barnes manual has loads up to 2852 fps. Now I know that European loadings for the 6.5x55, as well as old, post war North American loads for the 6.5x55 have it pushing a 140gr bullet at 3000 fps, so I don't think the Barnes manual is out to lunch with crazy hot loads. So what gives?

I don't have a chrony yet, but for you guys who do, which manuals have you found to be the most accurate? I find it totally wierd that according to one manual my 303 British load is moving along at 2100 fps and according to the next manual the same load gets me 2350 fps.

Thanks in advance!
 
There are a lot of variables when reloading.

Different powder lots, different guns, different cartridge cases , different weather conditions and the list goes on.

It does seem however that some differences are rather extreme which is why it is a good idea to have more than one reloading manual.
 
generally Barnes #3 is out to lunch on velocity and the new manual has dramtically reduced loads and velocities in most cartridges. The Speer has just about always got teh mildest max loads, hornady is generally fine. I try and take two or three sources, get an average and work up from there, use a chronograph to confirm max loads.

You didn't mention which cartridge other than 6.5 swede, it has loads for old military and different ones for new rifles.
 
As colinjw said, a lot of variables.

All of the books are right. If you look at the equipment and components that was used, it's all different.

One might use a rifle and another might use a pressure barrel, they could have tight or loose chambers, differences in bore diameter etc.
 
All of them. The velocities seen in manuals are averages of the loads tested by the factory ballistics engineers. They're not absolutes.
"...use the manuals as more of guidelines..." Only for velocity. Do not load above or below the minimum or maximum loads.
Barnes bullets are not the same as other factory bullets in construction. A solid copper bullet will fly totally differently than a copper jacketd lead core bullet.
 
6.5x55 is probably one of the worst calibers to do book to book comparisons for.
The industry standard for pressures is a wopping 46,000 CUP, and some manuals adhere to that standard, others like Speer take them up to 50,00 CUP.
Hornady and Barnes list no pressure standards, so who knows what the took their loads to.
Sure you can wring a couple hundered feet per second out of the Swede, but do you think the game will notice?
Or do you think 4" at 400yds is gonna be enough of a diffrence for the average hunter under hunting conditions?
 
martinbns said:
The Speer has just about always got teh mildest max loads,
Click to expand...


Not really.

Speer provides their data in slightly different format than other manufacturers. They work to maximum pressure using industry standard pressure barrels on universal receivers. For their velocity figures they then shoot these developed loads through normal, everyday sporting rifles. The velocities they publish are usually pretty close to what one can expect to obtain in the "real world" using off-the-shelf sporters.
 
read your manuals !!!!!!!!!!!!variables a speer ,hornady,and barnes bullets are not identical.
if you shoot the same amount of powder exactly you will will find differences in point of impact.from each manufacturer in the same rifle .due to;
bullet constuction,alloys,hardness,shape ,bearing surface,lube/lack of ,bullet seating , bullet crimp,ect
ALLWAYS START WITH MINIUM AND WORK UP.
barnes has different loads for lubed /non lubed same weight bullets .due to lower presures as a result of lube .equals slower fps with same powder load .
barnes TSX has less surface area in contact with rifleing = lower preasure =slower fps with same amount of powder as a barnes X of the same weight with the same powder charge .
I use hornady and barnes, have found using same powder charge with both the barnes and hornady have different points of impact out of the same rifle .
chrony speeds are quite close for both compared to manual fps

build a variety and use what shoots the best for you and your rifle.
max not always the best ......for your application.variety is the spice of life !
 
I have found mistakes from time to time, but I don't recall seeing a mistake that would result in a dangerous situation. Well, maybe one, but that was in an old manual, and one should approach maximum loads with caution in any case. It kind of bugs me when a new manual comes out, and the mistake from the previous edition is repeated in the new - Hornady!!
 
I brought some real "zingers" in Barnes #3 to their attention, but they would not even acknowlege the messages. No matter how good the blue stuff is, it is counter-intuitive to have a STARTING load for a blue coated bullet that is 3 gr higher than their MAXIMUM load for exact same bullet without the coating!
 
oldbadger said:
I brought some real "zingers" in Barnes #3 to their attention, but they would not even acknowlege the messages. No matter how good the blue stuff is, it is counter-intuitive to have a STARTING load for a blue coated bullet that is 3 gr higher than their MAXIMUM load for exact same bullet without the coating!
Click to expand...

The reason that the blue bullets use a higher charge weight than standard, is that the pressures are much lower so they boost the charge weights to obtain higher velocities for the same pressure.

It was Rick Jamieson or Layne Simpson that did some testing on this when the bullet first appeared.
 
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