Canuck paper hulls

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Jessegreenwood

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So, I got a bunch of paper ‘Canuck’ hulls, which I assume I can just load with federal paper hull recipies.
From what I have read, hulls were mostly interchangeable when paper hulls were the norm, and I don’t plan on loading to the max pressure.
Does anyone have any experience with these hulls?
I will probably load them with fiber wad stacks, and also with waa12f114 wads, if I can get some suitable powder.
Anyway, just looking for tips and info for paper hull loading.
Also interested I. 1oz slug, and 69 round ball.
 
I have some Canuck paper hulls, and they take a smaller primer than the modern Federal paper hulls. I think they were called 57 or 57* primers. I have some very old CCI primers that are the right size. I think Remington was the other manufacturer besides of course CIL. Good luck finding some.
 
Well, you made me curious enough to go over to my reloading box to check. They can take a Winchester 209. Maybe it is a bit more pressure that a Winchester hull, but I am not even sure about that.
The one thing, I have to deprime them by hand, because my mec jr loader, the ‘shell stretcher’ is too big for paper hulls.
 
I grew up on the smell of freshly fired paper hulls, there is no smell like it.

I looked in Lyman First Complete shotshell manual, it does have data for the Canuck hull. Their data calls for an Alcan 220 Max-Fire or a CIL 4BP primer. They are "Standard" diameter but are shorter, at least the CIL 4BP is from what I've read.

Both of those primers were "hot" by todays standards.

Years ago I several boxes of paper hulls and fiber wads came into my possession. Old stashes of paper hulls and fiber wads are hard to sell, nearly worthless. I paid nothing for my stash and it came with a hull restorer. The old paper dries out, but the wax remains deep in the core of the paper walls. This heater brings the wax to the surface again and stiffens the paper.

Paper hulls may become mandated as plastic anything becomes banned for environment reasons.

I consider them not worth fiddling with. They are a bit ZEN like to work with, and the hulls only last a couple firing before they burn through. (Pin Holes just above the brass head. Paper hulls usually had high brass to minimize the pinholes.

You'll need the old books to learn the art of loading paper.

I think Remington has recently introduced a paper hull.
 
You have to go back to Lyman Shotshell Handbook #1 to find data for Canuck paper cases in 12 gauge.
There's only data for Alcan 220 Max Fire and CIL 48P primers, that are both "209" size, and only long obsolete wads.
Lyman Handbook #2 only has data for CIL plastic hulls.
 
Jessegreenwood said:
Well, you made me curious enough to go over to my reloading box to check. They can take a Winchester 209.
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Longwalker said:
I have some Canuck paper hulls, and they take a smaller primer than the modern Federal paper hulls. I think they were called 57 or 57* primers. I have some very old CCI primers that are the right size. I think Remington was the other manufacturer besides of course CIL. Good luck finding some.
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nitro-express said:
...Their data calls for an Alcan 220 Max-Fire or a CIL 4BP primer. They are "Standard" diameter but are shorter, at least the CIL 4BP is from what I've read.
Click to expand...

There were two diameters of shotshell primers. The standard 209 size, and one a few thousandths smaller, the CCI 157 and Remington 57.
Only Remington, long ago used the smaller, proprietary size in their shotshells.
Therefore, all CIL hulls take standard 209's. CIL did make their primers shorter than everyone else, but that has no effect on reloading the hulls with any 209 primer you choose.
 
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I was a teenager when Remington switched over to plastic hulls everyone else followed over to plastic not long after . I thought it was a fade was I wrong . Still have a stash of paper ammo all makes kicking around along with some CIL 4BP and Alcan 220 MAX FIRE Primers . Have fun with your project but reloading paper hulls can be a challenge but as stated they smell great when you touch them off.
 
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warzaw said:
I was a teenager when Remington switched over to plastic hulls everyone else followed over to plastic not long after . I thought it was a fade was I wrong . Still have a stash of paper ammo all makes kicking around along with some CIL 4BP and Alcan 220 MAX FIRE Primers . Have fun with your project but reloading paper hulls can be a challenge but as stated they smell great when you touch them off.
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I am trying to understand WHY anyone would reload paper now unless a odd gauge or odd size when there is so much better hulls out there to use your powder and components on
Like you we did them until the plastic cut in and never looked back
Not to mention unless one has an old stash of fiber wads, cards, vintage powders etc are not easy to find any more
I have that stash ( as I have showed before ) and still don't do them any more other than some short 16ga and 3" 410 yep even 57 primers kicking around somewhere :)
Just my humble opinion and to each their own
 
Out of the box for something to do is my guess . I do stuff like that all the time usually doesn't go anywhere but it's fun trying.. My two cents.
 
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warzaw said:
Out of the box for something to do is my guess . I do stuff like that all the time usually doesn't go anywhere but it's fun trying.. My two cents.
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I must be getting real old or found other things to do with a better result in the end
All I remember is reloads not smelling anything like factory paper. Shot cards falling out and going home with a pocket full of shot and pounding hulls into a chamber after they swell :)

My worry today would be the hull condition after all theses years. I gave the mrs 1000's in the last 10 years for xmas decorations after checking the base. They were just like powder in many cases when disturbed

Cheers
 
That was the fun of those days sitting all day half frozen in a duck blind , lots of upland game a ton of places to hunt , model 12 shotguns and paper hulls. And nobody took notice when on the way home on your bike you stopped by the local eatery with birds and gun in tow for a Burger and Coke. Paper shells were part of that for me. New ammo is better but the present times are not.
 
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warzaw said:
That was the fun of those days sitting all day half frozen in a duck blind , lots of upland game a ton of places to hunt , model 12 shotguns and paper hulls. And nobody took notice when on the way home on your bike you stopped by the local eatery with birds and gun in tow for a Burger and Coke. Paper shells were part of that for me. New ammo is better but the present times are not.
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Sure was. Better ammo today not sure on that. I would put an old Imperial high brass paper mag up against any lead rounds they make today
Those things would keel LOL
2dLiSfh.jpg
 
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Agree with the Imperial high brass . The old CIL made great components and ammo in those days. Still have a bunch of shot shells and brass ammo on hand. IVI was the end of that great company all downhill after they took over.
 
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warzaw said:
Agree with the Imperial high brass . The old CIL made great components and ammo in those days.
Still have a bunch of shot shells and brass ammo on hand. IVI was the end of that great company all downhill after they took over.[/QUOTE]
Makes two of us :)
That happens when one is as old as we are LOL

Some where buried I have these old cardboard wall charts out of my dad's shop one rifle one shotgun
Priceless IHMO. I bet you remember them :)

M0Z6Gy0.jpg


XKolO86.jpg
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Well, I loaded 1 shell, just to test the crimp. 18 grains of tightwad, 2 1/2” fiber wads, 1 oz shot and a thin overshot card. It crimped nice. Nicer than I get with some plastic shells. Might load a couple more like that.
With the hulls, I got a bunch of fiber wads and overshot cards, but no hard nitro cards.
So my question is 2 fold.
How important is that to getting a good seal, and how thick does the cardboard need to be.
I have a punch the right size, and have punched some up; one batch, banaba box cardboard, so corrugated, but double layer. And another batch 1/8” Masonite. So that might be a bit too hard, I am not sure. You can see it through the hull, it is a 19mm punch so quite a tight fit.
Another cardboard seal I have seen in cross sections looks like a cardboard brush wall, or gas seal cup. That may be another options.

Don’t know when I will be able to get to somewhere I can shoot, so for now just playing with components
 
Overshot cards usually measure.035 and can be made out of most anything paper, plastic . Nitro cards .070, .125 . you can use what ever it takes to get the proper height to get a good crimp they don't effect pressure. I don't think the corrugated or Masonite is a good idea but nitro cards are stiff and should be used under the base wad. Be careful and have fun.
 
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Years ago we made nitro cards out of sheets of gasket material from an auto parts store or glued cereal boxes together and as warzaw says they don't effect pressure. Some guys used cork also
Cheers
 
Not that it really matters, but my understanding is 0.125" is the "standard" Nitro card thickness, of very stiff cardboard. Thanks to previous posters about the proper primers for those paper Canuck hulls. I should sell or give away my CCI 109 primers.
I like using paper hulls for making completely biodegradable non-tox shot shells. I currently use Federal paper hulls, Fed 209A, card and fibre wads, Green dot and 1-1/8 oz. bismuth for a nice mild duck jumpshooting load. Seems like the right combo to use in a vintage double. And it works well, smells good too.

One tip on crimping: if you are star crimping as opposed to rolling w/ over shot card, and have a smooth cone shaped crimp starter for your press, that's the one to use for reloading fired paper hulls. It works better than using a pointed crimp starter. Not many people know that any more.
 
The .125 is the standard but they did come in .070 to make up column height . I still have a few boxes of CIL cards in 12 , 20 , 410 . I also have a few dozen of paper Fiocchi unfired hulls that we used to load slugs for deer hunting I think that was a couple of hundred years ago? I have not seen old CIL with 109 primers but that does not mean they don't exist . Never say never . Always something to learn. Maybe in my next 100 years I will have it all figured out.
 
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