The Evolution of the Riflemans Uniform 1860-1990s
- Thread starter Rebel Rouser
- Start date
Check out this site for Pattern 64 webbing.............the most useless POS ever fielded.
http://mpmuseum.org/postwarequipment2.html
That’s not it. I have everything in those photos.
Then lets slip back further in time to WE 51 pattern. I would suggest you post this question on Maple Leaf Up and ask Ed Storey what was worn in Germany in the 1960s. I would think it was a mix of 51 and 64 pattern depending on units or year with 64 Pattern supplanting WE51 by end of decade.
http://mpmuseum.org/index3.html
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/
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maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There were guys who insisted on P'51 utility pouches with their P'64 web setups before the P'82 stuff was issued.
But, in the words of a Somalia Airborne Regiment medic friend, the more pouches you have on the belt, the heavier someone will order you to make it.
But, in the words of a Somalia Airborne Regiment medic friend, the more pouches you have on the belt, the heavier someone will order you to make it.
Yes, the 1951 pattern was built with WW2 experience. The 1964 pattern really sucked - a little further away from a shooting war.. Then there was the 1964 pattern parka which was terrible.
I often wonder how those people that got into a position of designing the 64 Pattern webbing, they obviously had never served in Combat Arms ,
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The '64 Pattern was part of the green combat uniform, to go with the FNC1 and especially to go with the M113 APC. Supposedly a soldier would never have to tire himself out carrying lots of kit because he's never run too far from his APC or 3/4-t truck section vehicle. Twenty-rd mags went into pockets, and ammo in 20-rd boxes in the keepers inside the side pockets, or in tied rubberized cotton bandoleers of that gorgeous DA 63. That's all he'd ever need. Warfare was new and improved.
The story is JADEX (General Jacques Dextraze, hard-as-shrapnel, ex-wartime FMR company commander and later CO, etc etc) was CDS or close to it, took one look at the troops during some exercise and asked the embarrassing questions. That floppy cargo pack was the next best thing procurement could come up with for troop's kit. If my timeline is correct, it wasn't until the 70s when Arctic sovereignty was a big deal that there were proper buys of good winter gear and the US Army jungle rucksack. The one guys still lovingly call the jump ruck. In the 70s the old-timers who knew kept their '51P or the cool kids somehow got British webbing (not US).
General Jacques Dextraze was definitely a very experienced battle hardened officer, he experienced the hard fighting in Normandy, and through Belgium, Holland and Germany, later in the Korean War , called back by the government from civilian life and commanding a battalion of the Royal 22nd regiment with skill and courage , by the time I joined in 1971 , I never saw the rubber bandoliers, perhaps they were in Germany with the brigade
Developed in conjuction with the 1964 Pattern web equipment, the concept and design of the Combat uniform was based on the (flawed) premise that the infantry soldier would ride into battle in an Armoured Personel Carrier and dismount to engage the enemy. Combat would require only weapons, ammunition, water and light rations. Additional clothing and personal gear required for living in the field would be carried in the APC. This concept also assumed that the soldier would not be required to march long distances on foot or carry heavy loads.
Instead of issuing magazine pouches with the 1964 Pattern web, the breast and waist pockets of the Combat Coat and Shirt-Coat were designed to carry the 20 round magazines for the FN C1 rifle. The breast pockets were slanted and heavily reinforced with nylon liners in order to bear the weight of loaded rifle magazines. The waist cargo pockets were provided with nylon loops for two magazines. The first pattern Combat Coats and Shirt-Coats were designed to carry only four 20 round magazines for a total of 80 rounds of ammunition. Two additional magazine loops were added to the left waist pocket in subsequent versions. Additional ammunition was carried in 60 round plastic (later cloth) bandoliers.
http://mpmuseum.org/uniforms_combat.html
Instead of issuing magazine pouches with the 1964 Pattern web, the breast and waist pockets of the Combat Coat and Shirt-Coat were designed to carry the 20 round magazines for the FN C1 rifle. The breast pockets were slanted and heavily reinforced with nylon liners in order to bear the weight of loaded rifle magazines. The waist cargo pockets were provided with nylon loops for two magazines. The first pattern Combat Coats and Shirt-Coats were designed to carry only four 20 round magazines for a total of 80 rounds of ammunition. Two additional magazine loops were added to the left waist pocket in subsequent versions. Additional ammunition was carried in 60 round plastic (later cloth) bandoliers.
http://mpmuseum.org/uniforms_combat.html
Ok I have your answer from someone who knows just about everything concerning kit and Canadian Army uniforms and has a very extensive collection. Ever hear of a dressing called Blanco the WE51 was blancoed a dark green so period pics in black and white may look, black.
15. Oh yes that floppy sack of shiit the Cargo Pack, another fail. Great for getting contents soaked as it was not water proof and the dye ran to give the contents and groovey tie dyed look. Its replacement the 82 Pattern ruck was a step up but as you point out never really the answer. I used my American "Jump Ruck", modified slightly for the 2CMBG Iron Man. Those rubberized bandoleers, like most things the Army bought back in the day where a "good idea" but hardly lived up to expectations by some Project Manager, try opening the thing up in the dead of winter.
Another useless piece of kit was the C5 clasp knife. You could stone that thing till you could shave with it, use once to cut something and the edge was lost making it a "safety knife that should you fall on it the worse that would happen is a bruise.
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We used to call the web dressing "Capo". I think it was from the company that made it. There was khaki Capo for dress web belts and OD Capo for the '51 pattern webbing. The 200 man barrack blocks had a utility room with sinks and tables that we called "the Capo room" because that was where you did your webbing.
Jadex was a small, but impressive, man. He presented me with my graduation certificate from Staff College in 1974.
Let's not talk about those dumb magazine pockets in the combat uniform. It was like integration; no other army in the world tried it based on our sorry example. M113s? The first ones came without heaters because some General decided that the troops would be reluctant to get out in cold weather. A lot of heaters got built from spare parts afterwards.
Jadex was a small, but impressive, man. He presented me with my graduation certificate from Staff College in 1974.
Let's not talk about those dumb magazine pockets in the combat uniform. It was like integration; no other army in the world tried it based on our sorry example. M113s? The first ones came without heaters because some General decided that the troops would be reluctant to get out in cold weather. A lot of heaters got built from spare parts afterwards.
The Germany webbing in the video is 51 PAT webbing blackened, not a misinterpretation as the QOR are a rifle Regt and the webbing was traditionally blackened. You can find WW2 37 PAT webbing from British Regt’s blackened, they still do so today with all dress uniform webbing black. I was really surprised that they took until the 2nd last video to flaunt the ResF jump task LOL. Usually they aren’t that subtle LOL
