Winchester Model 24 out of time.

tokguy

tokguy

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Thanks for any polite replies to help. I was done at my 'Lady Friend's' parents for an afternoon tea. Closer to the end of the visit Keith ( F-I-L is the simple version ) brought out a nice old Winchester 24. It is in the broken open position. He handed it to me and said "Something is wrong with it"
I glanced down into the action and both firing pins are in the fired position.
Now, I'm not a big Scattergun guy, but interweb says that this is a true hammerless gun. Now an enclosed hammer gun should have cocked the hammers upon breaking it open IMO... if I am mistaken...I'm listening. This should be si,iliar in that regard.
Hence, the sears should also have been reset upon opening as well... or am I mistaken?
The firing pins are still there and not mangled...so Keith rightfully didn't get Charles Atlas on it and I'm guessing the Gunsmiths's evaluation of several hundred $$$ was for a couple hours time to dis-assemble / reset / clean / re-assemble the gun.
If anyone has seen this situation, I'm listening for sure. Our local Gun Plumber ( Alf) passed quite some years back, and I am 'OK' with working on my own firearms, but do not presume to have the patience / knowledge to claim to be a gun plumber...I'd like to 'hep him out'...but it's easier when I have a rough idea of the causation and repair before tackling the resetting of the sears.
Thank you for your time.
Tokguy
 
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Not sure of what you are talking about ? The pins stick out after firing and if you break the gun down before recocking they will stay that way put the gun back together they are reset with the fore arm in place. I think you have a problem that isn't there. There are some double gun geru shooters on the board hopefully they can chime in on this post.
 
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warzaw said:
Not sure of what you are talking about ? The pins stick out after firing and if you break the gun down before recocking they will stay that way put the gun back together they are reset with the fore arm in place. I think you have a problem that isn't there. There are some double gun geru shooters on the board hopefully they can chime in on this post.
Click to expand...

Well, we are sorta saying the same thing I suspect...just in different ways.
Strangely enough all my S x S experience has been with 100 - 125 year old guns... Open or concealed hammers. Open; the firing pins often are floating and can drop forward into a fired position. But this is not a hammer gun... sear fired.
Edit; interweb also says this is an odd duck...so I'm not totally out to lunch on my speculating
I know it needs taking down to reset the sears.
I'm guessing someone pulled the triggers when the action was open and it requires disassembly to reset the sears.
Removing or reattaching the forestock doesn't do anything to help... different mechanism than a hammer gun. That's why I posed the question, on the offhand chance someone is intimate with this model.
As before, thanks all for the polite replies.
I'm thinking this will be an discovering chore...I'll know more when I get done than I do now.
Regards
Tokguy
 
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Tokguy the hammers won't reset without the forend attached on my LeFever and Win SXS . that is a fact but Trapper may have something with his reply pull the buttstock and have a look at the hammers they may be seized .
 
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warzaw said:
Tokguy the hammers won't reset without the forend attached on my LeFever and Win SXS . that is a fact but Trapper may have something with his reply pull the buttstock and have a look at the hammers they may be seized .
Click to expand...

It is a hammerless gun... 3rd time I've mentioned that friend.
DOESN"T HAVE HAMMERS guys, not even internally...different action totally. Sear fired like a Savage 219
When The forestock came off it was immediately apparent that it is different.
 
tokguy said:
I'm guessing someone pulled the triggers when the action was open and it requires disassembly to reset the sears.
Removing or reattaching the forestock doesn't do anything to help...
Click to expand...

Can you remove the forend?

If you can that is the first step...

The next step is to take the forend, the barrels and the action to a gunsmith. He should be able to #### the hammers and assemble it for you.
 
guntech said:
Can you remove the forend?

If you can that is the first step...

The next step is to take the forend, the barrels and the action to a gunsmith. He should be able to #### the hammers and assemble it for you.
Click to expand...

No Gun Plumbers locally that I'm aware of. And yep, the forestock comes off. Seems like a trip to a Gun plumber is always 6 months to several years as well... always a SOB to wait on that.
This can't be that hard, I can rebuild engines and various mechanisms...I can usually do a service on firearms. Just not modifying for the most part
BTW...is the term sear confusing the issue? Is striker fired a better term?
 
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tokguy said:
No Gun Plumbers locally that I'm aware of. And yep, the forestock comes off. Seems like a trip to a Gun plumber is always 6 months to several years as well... always a SOB to wait on that.
This can't be that hard, I can rebuild engines and various mechanisms...I can usually do a service on firearms. Just not modifying for the most part
BTW...is the term sear confusing the issue? Is striker fired a better term?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if it is firing pins that get 'cocked' or hammers... it is all linked to the forend... Normally on side by side shotguns there is a mechanism in the forend that links up to the action and causes it to be cocked as the action is opened... that has to link up as the forend is being attached.

It is possible you have a couple of broken parts that #### it ...

Here is a link to a schematic
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/winchester/shotguns-win/24-win
 
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As Guntech suggests, the strikers are cocked by opening the action. There is a gismo called the cocking slide that rests in the channel between the two barrel lugs. (this part is not attached to the forend, its part of the barrel assy.)
 
tokguy said:
It is a hammerless gun... 3rd time I've mentioned that friend.
DOESN"T HAVE HAMMERS guys, not even internally...different action totally. Sear fired like a Savage 219
When The forestock came off it was immediately apparent that it is different.
Click to expand...

It may not have hammers but they all reset with the forearm in place sorry for trying to help you. guntech gave you the schematic should be a no brainer .
 
warzaw said:
It may not have hammers but they all reset with the forearm in place sorry for trying to help you. guntech gave you the schematic should be a no brainer .
Click to expand...

Beg pardon if that came across Salty... it is most certainly a different animal.
I'll grab some pictures next time.. the mechanism is a bit removed from a run of the mill S x S. One suspects it might get be like a Remington Nylon... just didn't work out.
Likely it'll be closer to a 219... Maybe have to look at mine.
Seen the Nurmich exploded view...kinda glad it isn't my gun actually. Seems like someone at Winchester got bored and 'improved' the basic simple beauty of a S x S til it was a mess to deal with.
Thanks all
 
I was there and didn't grab pictures. Just had a quick glance at it.
Not the best design, if you had this happen and closed it...could have snapped the firing pins off as they are protruding.
I'll be going back with gun plumber's screwdrivers in a day or three perhaps
From what I can tell the action lever retracts the strikers... the sears aren't catching them is all. The bed of the action has a couple stamped metal sliding hooks ( cocking slides is the term I think) designed into it...it is a busy action for sure.
Engineers are great when they get it right... guessing this is not one of those instances.
Beautiful gun though...looks like it has lived a life in a cabinet. Not really a score as a shooter... a Winchester collector might desire it I suppose.
Next visit pictures for sure... for prosperity's sake if nothing else.
 
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For a reason or another, I thought it was just a cheaper finished M21...I guess not.


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Back in the 70's and 80's I enjoyed reading Roy Dunlap's editorials and soft cover books. Remember the article he wrote on the Model 24 Winchester. He began the article by saying the M24 Winchester was the gun most brought to him in a paper bag full of parts. Folks would, for whatever reasons, undue the two screws by the tang and the whole inside would fall to pieces and being compressed coil springs over the firing pins and such most folks were lost at that point. His article explained how to compress the coil springs and reinstall the retainer pins. You'd be best to follow Dennis' advice as he would be the one to know how to re-#### the action. Don't be tempted to remove those two screws or you may have an adventure you don't need.
 
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