.357 Magnum Revolver Smith and Wesson or Colt?

DanRR said:
In other words, Ruger GP-100, S&W 686 and Colt Python all do the same job but the Python does it with more class, if you attach importance to that kind of things.
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At least one Colt Python did the same job for two range sessions. Then became a classy paperweight.

According to NAA's post, copied below.

"That's certainly not the experience of other Python owners I've talked to over the years. Very delicate wheelguns compared to S&W's.

Recently, a frequent flier at our LGS came into a vintage Python. Looked minty, probably shot very little. Two range session later & some internal part had failed. Last I heard he was looking for the needed parts to get it running & a 'smith willing to work on it.

---------
NAA."
 
I'll put in my two cents here.

As a Colt/S&W pistol smith myself, I own and shoot all of my revolvers. I have three Pythons, two Anacondas, two Colt 3-5-7's, a MK III, a MK V, and a number of older colts in 38 special. For S&W I have 686, 66, 19, model of 1989 N frame, and many more... also a Dan Wesson collection in 357 mag and 44 mag. I have not personally purchased any Rugers. I have shot some nicely tuned GP100's but the ones I tried out of the box were not inspiring.

The Python actions do have a weakness when a lot of full house 357 rounds are fired. I've worked on a few of them where the timing was slightly out from wear and tear. The Pythons that did exhibit this timing issue were typically found in guns that have seen a lot of rounds, and I mean like 20 years of being daily shooters and being used for competitions. The repair is not difficult and the hand that is required is readily available as it's a common wear item for Pythons. I get my Colt parts from canadabrass but there available from the US as well. If a Python is in great shape it'll run for many many years without issue unless it gets abused in some way.

I have a new Python that is now my daily shooter and has displaced my 686. The new Pythons don't feel as good as the older ones but can be tuned to amazing levels if you know a smith. The new Pythons are simpler actions and made with harder steel which should not have the same problem the older ones may display after years of use. For the record, my 686 also went out of time and I had to replace the ratchet on the cylinder. If you know how to check revolver timing correctly you may find your S&W is out too! There are S&W's out there that are out of time, if only ever so slightly and only when really dirty but many don't know it.

The Dan Wessons are the best kept secret in my opinion. You get an amazing revolver at a currently undervalued used price. They can also be tuned up to competition level triggers.

Long story long, If I was the OP and wanted something to shoot like crazy, feel decent without a pistol smith required to tune it first, and pass on to family when I'm gone, it would be a new Python. There's other great options depending on what you can find used, like here on CGN you could run into a tuned DW 15 or 715, GP100, S&W model 66 or 686 and get a great life long friend. It will hold it's value but it won't as well as the colt. That colt action is a different shooting experience to the others and I personally prefer it.

The suggestions for MR73 or Korth are valid too if your in that price range. Cannot fault either of those out of the box accept for the investment to get one.
 
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MuthaFunk said:
I'll put in my two cents here.

As a Colt/S&W pistol smith myself, I own and shoot all of my revolvers. I have three Pythons, two Anacondas, two Colt 3-5-7's, a MK III, a MK V, and a number of older colts in 38 special. For S&W I have 686, 66, 19, model of 1989 N frame, and many more... also a Dan Wesson collection in 357 mag and 44 mag. I have not personally purchased any Rugers. I have shot some nicely tuned GP100's but the ones I tried out of the box were not inspiring.

The Python actions do have a weakness when a lot of full house 357 rounds are fired. I've worked on a few of them where the timing was slightly out from wear and tear. The Pythons that did exhibit this timing issue were typically found in guns that have seen a lot of rounds, and I mean like 20 years of being daily shooters and being used for competitions. The repair is not difficult and the hand that is required is readily available as it's a common wear item for Pythons. I get my Colt parts from canadabrass but there available from the US as well. If a Python is in great shape it'll run for many many years without issue unless it gets abused in some way.

I have a new Python that is now my daily shooter and has displaced my 686. The new Pythons don't feel as good as the older ones but can be tuned to amazing levels if you know a smith. The new Pythons are simpler actions and made with harder steel which should not have the same problem the older ones may display after years of use. For the record, my 686 also went out of time and I had to replace the ratchet on the cylinder. If you know how to check revolver timing correctly you may find your S&W is out too! There are S&W's out there that are out of time, if only ever so slightly and only when really dirty but many don't know it.

The Dan Wessons are the best kept secret in my opinion. You get an amazing revolver at a currently undervalued used price. They can also be tuned up to competition level triggers.

Long story long, If I was the OP and wanted something to shoot like crazy, feel decent without a pistol smith required to tune it first, and pass on to family when I'm gone, it would be a new Python. There's other great options depending on what you can find used, like here on CGN you could run into a tuned DW 15 or 715, GP100, S&W model 66 or 686 and get a great life long friend. It will hold it's value but it won't as well as the colt. That colt action is a different shooting experience to the others and I personally prefer it.

The suggestions for MR73 or Korth are valid too if your in that price range. Cannot fault either of those out of the box accept for the investment to get one.
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Thank you very much for taking the time to offer your assistance. You have had more experience than most, with many different brands and models of revolvers.
You are a wealth of information, and I certainly appreciate your experiences. It sounds like there is no real wrong decision; just choices......
 
MuthaFunk said:
I'll put in my two cents here.

As a Colt/S&W pistol smith myself, I own and shoot all of my revolvers. I have three Pythons, two Anacondas, two Colt 3-5-7's, a MK III, a MK V, and a number of older colts in 38 special. For S&W I have 686, 66, 19, model of 1989 N frame, and many more... also a Dan Wesson collection in 357 mag and 44 mag. I have not personally purchased any Rugers. I have shot some nicely tuned GP100's but the ones I tried out of the box were not inspiring.
... The Dan Wessons are the best kept secret in my opinion. You get an amazing revolver at a currently undervalued used price. They can also be tuned up to competition level triggers.
... That colt action is a different shooting experience to the others and I personally prefer it.
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Well, your two cents are very interesting to read. Indeed.

May I ask you if your preferences and commentaries apply to Colt, Smith & Wesson and Dan Wesson revolvers in Single action/Hammer cocking/Thumb cocking mode or Double action/Trigger cocking mode ? Or both modes ?

Jerry Miculek uses Smith & Wesson revolvers only and he shoots exclusively in so called Double action (Trigger cocking) mode. He said that the Colt and Ruger revolvers were "good guns" too but that he could not "race" with the other competitors while using them. He also said many times that he was able to shoot faster with the Smith & Wesson revolvers (trigger return speed, it seems) than he could with Colt and Ruger revolvers.

What are your thoughts about the Colt revolvers in Double action (Trigger cocking) mode, especially the Python, Mk III and Mk V ?
 
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As with any other firearm, how it feels to you is of primary importance. You can have the smoothest trigger on the most reliable platform in the world but if you are not comfortable shooting it, why bother. Best to actually hold each of the options and if possible, shoot them prior to making a decision. It could surprise you.
 
Snowy Owl said:
Well, your two cents are very interesting to read. Indeed.

May I ask you if your preferences and commentaries apply to Colt, Smith & Wesson and Dan Wesson revolvers in Single action/Hammer cocking/Thumb cocking mode or Double action/Trigger cocking mode ? Or both modes ?

Jerry Miculek uses Smith & Wesson revolvers only and he shoots exclusively in so called Double action (Trigger cocking) mode. He said that the Colt and Ruger revolvers were "good guns" too but that he could not "race" with the other competitors while using them. He also said many times that he was able to shoot faster with the Smith & Wesson revolvers (trigger return speed, it seems) than he could with Colt and Ruger revolvers.

What are your thoughts about the Colt revolvers in Double action (Trigger cocking) mode, especially the Python, Mk III and Mk V ?
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I'm pretty sure Jerry is on S & W's payroll via sponsorship.
 
Meroh said:
I'm pretty sure Jerry is on S & W's payroll via sponsorship.
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Well he is but don't discount what he says. Jerry is known as a well respected individual who values his reputation. He will also tell you that early S&W's were hand fitted because they had to be as the manufacturing processes were not as precise as they are today and hand fitting was necessary to make the guns work. When he says you cannot run a Ruger as fast as you can a Smith he is talking about shooters well above our pay grade ie a guy by the name of Jerry M. If you hear him discuss the topic he will tell you why that is the case.

I shoot the Ruger GP-100 in Rev Division in IDPA and am not offended when he says what he says. For me I just prefer the trigger pull on the Ruger over my 686. I would never claim my double taps are remotely close to the level Jerry is capable of. Hell he draws and fires six rounds out of his six shot 686 faster than I can draw the damn gun out of my holster and get my first shot off. You kinda got to take what he says in the context of your own ability and the ability from which he is coming from. If you are buying the 686 over the Ruger solely because Jerry is capable of driving the gun faster than the Ruger you are buying it for the wrong reason. Jerry would be the first to tell you that.

Take Care

Bob
 
lyle1 said:
I am enlisting my fellow CGN'ers for some help. I have taken a break from Restricted Firearms for two or three years. I sold off most of my collection as I thought I was done with the hobby.
However, I recently got the "bug" again, but only want to pickup one very nice .357 revolver that I can shoot, and be proud to pass down to my son some day. In the past I have had many vintage Smith and Wesson K, L, and N frames. My preference for this caliber would be the L frame first, and the K frame second.

Another thought to consider is a new Python. I do have reservations as the new 2020 version had some teething issues as the start, but apparently they have been rectified.
Also, are they really worth more than double the price of a nice vintage Smith and Wesson?

So my question to my fellow CGN'ers is, do I try and find an excellent example of a Vintage Smith and Wesson or save up the extra money for a new Python?

Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
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If the gun will be shot, S&W...

If the gun will be cared for, looked at, admired, exist as a safe queen, Colt...
 
aakoksal said:
If the gun will be shot, S&W...

If the gun will be cared for, looked at, admired, exist as a safe queen, Colt...
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Total agreement with this.

Colts, especially Python, very ###y to look at but for actual shooting, go with older S&W or Ruger.
 
dan belisle said:
Even then, in S&W, assuming you shoot a lot, get an N frame. Rugers are tanks though. I've seen broken ones, but they all had cause. - dan
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Bang on Dan. I should add though "Both" the Ruger GP-100 and S&W 686 are tanks. Due to the different grips =, Lett vs Pachmeyer (sp) my 4.2" GP-100 weighs less than my 105.14MM 686. I think the design squared off vs rounded gives the appearance the Smiths are lighter. That said the 6' Rugers may well be heavier than the 6" Smiths. A double charge in either will see the cylinders depart rather quickly I suspect. Both guns have solid reputations for accuracy and both are classics in their own right.

Take Care

Bob
 
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maxman1 said:
What about new, if you can't find an older Ruger or S&W?
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Newer S&W, Colt, Ruger and others are more and better built guns due to CNC technology that gives perfect tolerances that it was in the past. Today's produced steels are also much better than it was just two decades ago. Since more than 50 years I did own many many guns and I can tell you that newer guns are better made despite the opinion of some who says "in ole time made things were better"... yeah, sure... Metallurgy is much different and all for the best. Tolerances are much tighter. When I play with both my 2019 and my old no-dash 686 I can feel the difference MHO is buy a bran new gun. Take a look at this instructional video from an old guy like I am...

h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h9l2ipiKf4
 
maxman1 said:
What about new, if you can't find an older Ruger or S&W?
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Move back to planet Earth. Used Smiths and Rugers come up on the EE all the time.

8Ball said it best. While the old guns looked pretty, quality often was hit and miss. Some will say that is true today and it is easy to point to examples but go new if you can both the 686 and the GP-100's will last the OP a lifetime and over that time the difference between new and used cost wise is negligible.

Take Care
Bob
 
maxman1 said:
Almost all of my revolvers are older S&Ws. I was asking more for others.
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What others? The OP asked about Smiths and Colt and the thread quickly added the Ruger into the mix. Realistically aside from a couple of others with limited availability. This is true new or used.

Take Care
Bob
 
Snowy Owl said:
Well, your two cents are very interesting to read. Indeed.

May I ask you if your preferences and commentaries apply to Colt, Smith & Wesson and Dan Wesson revolvers in Single action/Hammer cocking/Thumb cocking mode or Double action/Trigger cocking mode ? Or both modes ?

Jerry Miculek uses Smith & Wesson revolvers only and he shoots exclusively in so called Double action (Trigger cocking) mode. He said that the Colt and Ruger revolvers were "good guns" too but that he could not "race" with the other competitors while using them. He also said many times that he was able to shoot faster with the Smith & Wesson revolvers (trigger return speed, it seems) than he could with Colt and Ruger revolvers.

What are your thoughts about the Colt revolvers in Double action (Trigger cocking) mode, especially the Python, Mk III and Mk V ?
Click to expand...

I'm only talking about casual shooting in in both single and double action as that's what it sounded like the OP was looking to do. For competition guns run only in double action, I'd agree with Jerry. It's hard to beat a S&W with a highly tuned double action. Once you smooth them out to competition levels the feel and ergonomics comes into play such as the cylinder release and ejection system. The limited number of parts in the S&W action when compared to an old Python tend to make it feel quicker.

The Colt MK III and V action is very similar to the DW's. The coil spring imparts its own feel as does the S&W flat spring or the Python V spring. They're all a subtly different stacking feel. I also have a tuned up 2020 Colt Cobra Target which shares some of it's heritage from the MK. III and some from the Python. The MK III /V and that new Colt Cobra just can not be set up to feel quite as nice as either a S&W or Python in double action.

In single action when pulling back on the hammer the buttery smoothness of both old and new Pythons just can't be beat. I have tuned many of my DW's, S&W's and Colts trigger pull down to a 2.5 lb pull so that part is a wash. There's a difference when pulling the hammer and the way the action responds while your returning the trigger and resetting the action.

In both actions a strange thing to feel when comparing them is the number of clicks you feel when the trigger is returning. Not only the number of clicks but where in the return path do you as the shooter feel them and how much of it is transferred to the trigger. With the Cobra Target there's 4 clicks you'll feel on the trigger reset all through the return cycle. The Pythons reset clicks are all at the end of the trigger return and close together limiting the crackly feel as you release the pressure off the trigger. The S&W's will click three times and more throughout the whole travel however the action design minimizes the effect of the clicks in the trigger.

I'm sorry, I may have gone a bit deep down the hole there. Not even sure if I answered your questions. LOL.


Canuck44 said:
Well he is but don't discount what he says. Jerry is known as a well respected individual who values his reputation. He will also tell you that early S&W's were hand fitted because they had to be as the manufacturing processes were not as precise as they are today and hand fitting was necessary to make the guns work. When he says you cannot run a Ruger as fast as you can a Smith he is talking about shooters well above our pay grade ie a guy by the name of Jerry M. If you hear him discuss the topic he will tell you why that is the case.

I shoot the Ruger GP-100 in Rev Division in IDPA and am not offended when he says what he says. For me I just prefer the trigger pull on the Ruger over my 686. I would never claim my double taps are remotely close to the level Jerry is capable of. Hell he draws and fires six rounds out of his six shot 686 faster than I can draw the damn gun out of my holster and get my first shot off. You kinda got to take what he says in the context of your own ability and the ability from which he is coming from. If you are buying the 686 over the Ruger solely because Jerry is capable of driving the gun faster than the Ruger you are buying it for the wrong reason. Jerry would be the first to tell you that.

Take Care

Bob
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I 100% agree with this comment. The levels we shoot and enjoy revolvers at and what Jerry and todays top competitors do place different demands on a revolver. Some GP100's that have been worked on are equally great but do feel different.

I shoot mostly for pleasure without a clock. The Python action works for me, and will hold it's value for my kids. Who am I kidding, the Liberals will likely get them before my kids but as least I'll get to enjoy them while I can.
 
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I want to add that the MIM parts are not a problem and new builds are excellent guns both from S&W and Colt. Just to get the most out of them you'll want some trigger work. Out of the box a S&W performance center or Python are likely the best outside of Manurhin or Korth.

MIM Parts do fail, I've had a couple. But once they are through the infant mortality period and you get some full house rounds though them while the warranty is in effect, the failure rate drops down to that of the old cast parts in my experience.
 
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