Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
That's some clawed toothy reality at bad breath range.
All-round choice for backpacking/hunting/predator defense
- Thread starter Rohann
- Start date
That's some clawed toothy reality at bad breath range.
Full disclosure-I've never shot a bear of any kind, but I've been alarmingly close to both grizzlies and black bears. Fortunately, I was in a Nissan Pathfinder when the grizzly looked in the window. 2 scary experiences with black bears, but like allot of us, see plenty of them without incident.
Personally, I'd opt for a pump shotgun and I'd echo enefgee's Wingmaster suggestion. Casey @ TacOrd has given me excellent results when I've brought guns to him, nothing but great things to say about him AND his work. (and fair prices) However, I'm of the opinion that the platform is so proven/reliable...a well-used Wingmaster cleaned-up/test fired ought to fit the bill nicely=no custom work really required. Barrel options, grips, lights, stock sets, custom bits-there is something for everyone, and it's almost all DIY-able. Worth mentioning maybe...but having sling-carried both semis and pumps, there isn't much to hang-up on with an 870 Wingmaster. (unless clunky grips/angular lights are added?) Small charging handles work against you on semis, but large ones (can) hang-up on your shirt/coat.
If I were setting an 870 up for this purpose (again, I haven't had the need/can't comment on the effectiveness of 2-3/4" slugs on grizzlies) I'd PROBABLY have a well-broken-in Wingmaster receiver, 14" bead-sight barrel (again, less to hang-up on than iron sights). I'd use an old/walnut buttstock...and a Hogue forend. They're unobtrusive, and grippy even when wet. IF I thought a light had to be part of the picture, I'd consider one of those Streamlight ones...or possibly a Surefire forend. (both have integrated lights/nothing hanging off the gun) Naturally, you could start with a magnum receiver to give you the 3" option, but I'm not sure that's a necessity for black bears. The western guys could chime in on that. I wouldn't trust myself to shoot accurately with a pistol-grip shotgun, I'd be looking for sling options that would allow for a shoulder-fired gun to be deployed quickly. They're out there.
Having fired lots of 2-3/4" slugs at lots of things...I think I would have allot of faith in them for bear defense. Having fired 3" slugs, the recoil difference feels significant from a pump gun, and my own ability to recover/take a follow-up shot is slower. I'm a big guy, and not recoil shy either. As noted by others, the slug choice matters a whole lot.
The Mossberg 500 platform is worth serious consideration, as they feel lighter to carry/shoot, probably owing to the aluminum receiver. I don't find them as easy/intuitive to breakdown for cleaning, but I have far more time behind 870s. They're great guns too.
I wasn't aware actually, thanks for the info. If 3.5" isn't really necessary for even grizzly defense then there probably isn't much point getting hung up on this point. I also didn't realize hotter loads make that much of a different with 3" shells.
I hope I never do experience it, but prep/train for the worst and hope for the best. Thanks for sharing your personal experience with the situation, helpful to get "real life" advice. Reliability is a huge one but I'm also concerned about user-error during an adrenaline rush, namely cycling the pump. Likely mitigated to some degree with practice. Good to know re: 3.5". I'm not super concerned about grizzlies but with the idiotic rule-by-mob regulations we're experiencing in BC there are now far more grizzlies in my area than there ever were (previously there weren't any).
This is helpful, thank you! 3-1/2" chamber is considerably less common than I thought it was, perusing what's available.
I would be inclined to agree. The only reason a semi would be a consideration is for the sake of follow up shots but I imagine that can be largely mediated by practice. Re: police -- reliability is likely a consideration, but criminals tend to go down easier than bears as well. I've actually never had to clear a pump malfunction so I'm not sure what's involved.
I've never had a real encounter with a bear, but I've been uncomfortably close to them (10m or less) numerous times, in and out of vehicles. They're extremely common here and I unaffectionately refer to them as "#######s of west coast fauna". Garbage/neighborhood bears are uncomfortably common in rural areas and they're incredibly brash.
I'd love some solid mods with an old Wingmaster. The Wingmaster is the only shotgun I've really ever used and I've never had any complaints about it. I've actively avoided cleaning them and they functional absolutely flawlessly. Options is another component worthy of consideration -- I really like the Benelli shotguns (including the mag feed stop button on the bottom of the pump) and there's a Nova on here for a reasonable amount, but there's relatively little you can do with them and an extra barrel costs about as much as a new shotgun, for some reason. No interchangeable chokes either for hunting purposes, so it would end up being a one-trick pony. 3" is mandatory though IMO -- not necessary for black bears in my estimation, but grizzlies are becoming increasingly common and I'd rather have the extra capacity. If I can find barrels for waterfowl it'd also be great to have longer reach.
I've considered Mossbergs but for some reason I've always hated how they feel. I understand they're reliable and perhaps I need to get over it, but the clunkyness and rattly nature of them tends to bother me.
What are peoples' opinions on the Nova series from Benelli? A newer Nova tactical can be had for less than some 870s.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
I’d take a pump gun over a semi any day for your intended use, hard to beat a simple and reliable thing like a pump action. 870, 500/590, Ithaca m37, bps all would fit the bill. I work out in the middle of grizzly country and would feel fine carrying a pump or break action but as has been said the right ammo and practice shooting it at your intended range is more important than what gun you pick provided it isn’t a piece of total crap lol.
My bear defense tool is a 372xpg with a 28” bar, carrying around another 6-7lbs while I’m working just isn’t a reality, if I had my atc sorted out that would be a different story.
My bear defense tool is a 372xpg with a 28” bar, carrying around another 6-7lbs while I’m working just isn’t a reality, if I had my atc sorted out that would be a different story.
Whichever one you choose, run lots of shells through it before you decide to trust your life to that individual gun.
I've seen a remington, an Ithaca and a browning all lock up like a bank vault on a fired shell. Most often just needed a serious chamber polishing. Seen two remingtons with extractors that let go and leave the fired shell in the chamber, too.
I've seen a remington, an Ithaca and a browning all lock up like a bank vault on a fired shell. Most often just needed a serious chamber polishing. Seen two remingtons with extractors that let go and leave the fired shell in the chamber, too.
Absolutely the first thing on the list - it's a very affordable modification, and you do need to have it. If the shotgun does jam (typically due to short stroking) it makes "mortaring" it open possible. That's a must have on a gun you might rely on for your life. Other stuff is nice to have (Vang Comp's safety, for example) this one is essential.
Me as well, I use the Vang Comp's safety on all my 870.
And I have upgraded all mine with a Timney Trigger Fix. Some of my 870s had a very sluggish trigger from the factory.
A bit off topic ..... has anybody figured out a way to silence an 870 safety?
I wish it would make less of an audible "click" ... especially when hunting deer or moose.
And I have upgraded all mine with a Timney Trigger Fix. Some of my 870s had a very sluggish trigger from the factory.
A bit off topic ..... has anybody figured out a way to silence an 870 safety?
I wish it would make less of an audible "click" ... especially when hunting deer or moose.
Thanks for the pointers re: mods! I assume newer 870s wouldn't have the Flexitab issue?
What's the general consensus on cheaper Benellis? 870s seem to be roughly the same price but potentially require mods, whereas a Nova tactical can be had for about $500 lightly used. That said there are a decent amount of them floating for sale used, which makes me wonder if they are simply common or if people don't really like them.
What's the general consensus on cheaper Benellis? 870s seem to be roughly the same price but potentially require mods, whereas a Nova tactical can be had for about $500 lightly used. That said there are a decent amount of them floating for sale used, which makes me wonder if they are simply common or if people don't really like them.
I had a Benelli Nova ..... the forend rattled a bit too much for my liking ... and I could not change the stock to a wood stock .... so I sold it and kept the 870.
I would go with a pump for reliability.
If you have to have a pistol grip get an 870. The Mossberg safety isn't really useable with a pistol grip.
Personally I put together an 870 with a pistol grip and a red dot for bear defence when bow hunting and I ended up selling it. I ended up with a shockwave that I put an SGA stock on, jumbo S&J safety, red dot and a Streamlight TL racker on.
The Shockwave with the SGA stock just seems a little more simple and easier to shoulder than the pistol gripped 870 did but is still similar in comfort to a pistol grip.
Edit to add; I shoot 2 3/4 slugs in it. with the size of hole they leave in plywood, I can't see them having too much issue on a bear. They aren't reduced recoil slugs though so the gun does kick a bit.
If you have to have a pistol grip get an 870. The Mossberg safety isn't really useable with a pistol grip.
Personally I put together an 870 with a pistol grip and a red dot for bear defence when bow hunting and I ended up selling it. I ended up with a shockwave that I put an SGA stock on, jumbo S&J safety, red dot and a Streamlight TL racker on.
The Shockwave with the SGA stock just seems a little more simple and easier to shoulder than the pistol gripped 870 did but is still similar in comfort to a pistol grip.
Edit to add; I shoot 2 3/4 slugs in it. with the size of hole they leave in plywood, I can't see them having too much issue on a bear. They aren't reduced recoil slugs though so the gun does kick a bit.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I heard spare barrels for the Nova are kind of pricey??
Beretta 1301 Tactical
Super Reliable
Super compact
Really nice controls
Interchangeable chokes
3" compatibility
It's like 2 pounds lighter than the M4/Turknelli, means you can carry more slugs with you in the bush
You don't reeally need a folding stock or a rifled barrel.
First post nails it. I'm a Benelli fan but the 1301 is lighter than my M4 and shorter than my M2.
My brand new Blue Line Pump (870 Clone) arrived today ... and I just finished taking her apart and cleaning her, and installed an oversize safety.
I have to say I am impressed .... fit and finish is good ... better then some 870s that I have seen.
All parts should be interchangeable with 870 parts with the exception of the barrel.
For the money (CAD $300.-) .... an incredible value.
Many dealers have the Blue Line Pump in stock right now.
I have to say I am impressed .... fit and finish is good ... better then some 870s that I have seen.
All parts should be interchangeable with 870 parts with the exception of the barrel.
For the money (CAD $300.-) .... an incredible value.
Many dealers have the Blue Line Pump in stock right now.
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When y'all got a griz bearin' down on you, the felt recoil is bearly felt.
Try shooting a high recoiling rifle from the bench, and then freehand. Quite a difference, eh?
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Some gear isn't up to it. Friends Mossberg 3.5 Ultra Mag kept tossing its bead sight. Another friends Versamax deformed the 3.5 inch shells in the magazine.
These questionable firearms are worlds apart from Safari Express magnum rifles.
Myself I own a Mauser in 458x2inch.
Oh interesting. They seem fairly tight, but all I've used is a Supernova.
Thanks. I'd definitely add a light.
I've changed my mind on a pistol grip, I think I'd rather have a Magpul stock with more of a vertical grip but still a non-pistol grip.
They're annoyingly expensive. $400ish which is about $100 less than a used Nova. Hard to find cheap Remington barrels though too, so maybe I should just stick to using an older Wingmaster for hunting.
Been looking more into this gun and if I could find it for a reasonable price I probably would go for it. Garandthumb certainly helped.
So as of now my list is looking more like:
-870, or possibly a Nova/Supernova. Haven't decided on the latter yet, but I'd prefer to be able to mod it.
-Beretta 1301 is on the table, albeit expensive
-3"
-Interchangeable chokes would be nice but this doesn't seem very common. 2 barrels then maybe
-Flashlight mountable
