Looking for a 12ga SxS that matches these...

H

huntingfish

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Hi folks! I had a hell of a time finding my 20ga (a lightweight Churchill 520), but ever since I found it, I've been loving every moment. It's great. And I couldn't have done without this community.

I am slowly starting to look for a 12ga SxS that matches specific criterias as well and I figured I might as well pick on CGN's collective brain once again.

It'll be used mainly for upland birds (as I soon will need to lend my 20ga to my son!). Mainly going to be shooting 2 3/4" shells and I'd like to find one that has these characteristics:
- New or used is fine
- 6 1/2 to 7 lbs
- Double triggers
- Ejectors
- English stock
- 28" barrels
- 3" optional
- Removable chokes optional
- Steel proof would be nice, but optional

Any brands or specific models that I should be looking at?

Appreciate it!

David
 
Check out the Huglu line offered by site sponsor Prophet River . the 202b model is what your describing less the ejectors .
 
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Suther said:
Have you had a gander at the options available over at Intersurplus? They have a wide variety of older used shotguns.
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I just had a quick glance over...I was hoping for something a little more polished.
Did they pick up all of TradeEx Canada's inventory? Looks like a fair share of the offerings are older Husqvarna SxS's. A friend has one...works flawlessly, but not exactly what I had in mind.

@Suther: A fellow nut is selling a 202b on the EE atm...I asked him for some extra pics. Looks like a great SxS for the price. The only thing that's keeping me from pulling the trigger is the lack of ejectors.

David
 
David, you have good taste in guns, but your budget is quite optimistic. To get a decent SxS gun with the attributes you want will likely cost at least double that. Some good low cost possibilities that you might be lucky enough to find are the Merkel base models from the pre-unification days, IF you can fin a straight grip version. Most were pistol grip w/cheek piece. Or one of the Chech Brno ZP49 guns, which show up occasionally in straight grip configuration. I have one and like it. Owned a Merkel 147E at one point too, but it cost closer to $2500. Some Spanish guns are also worth considering, but beware some of them from the 1970's were poorly built. You may need some more guidance on the Spanish possibilities. They range from "Best" quality to junk. I wouldn't buy an old Ithaca Flues model, but the Ithaca NID is a good gun. Some of the Savage Stevens guns are serviceable, but kinda heavy and not very elegant. Dabbling in Double guns is a whole world of its own, lots to learn.
 
With that budget, and your specs, you are looking at a Turkish gun. The CZ guns are half decent, as are their sister Huglus. Prophet River has a nice selection. These guns pop up on the EE often enough, however, a straight grip is rather uncommon.
 
Double barrel guns have long been very thin on the ground. When I first joined CGN, I was surprised how people were able to turn them up the way they do (and I still am) because I'd spent several previous decades checking in every gun shop I went in, including American ones, and had never found much of anything outside of places specializing in handcrafted guns with values exceeding that of the vehicle I was driving.
 
Big Bad said:
Double barrel guns have long been very thin on the ground. When I first joined CGN, I was surprised how people were able to turn them up the way they do (and I still am) because I'd spent several previous decades checking in every gun shop I went in, including American ones, and had never found much of anything outside of places specializing in handcrafted guns with values exceeding that of the vehicle I was driving.
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That was exactly my experience when I first got interested in good quality vintage SxS. Where the hell were they? I'm not sure I have an answer now except I now come across an endless assortment of them. I think with knowledge one just sees them more in a way one doesn't when you are beginning.
 
With a budget of $1000 to $1300 your options in new guns are slim, this is where serviceable doubles start although the main features you are looking for are available at this price point. You’re happy with your Churchill 520, why not get the equivalent Churchill in 12 gauge, you’d have a 12/20 pair. As already mentioned, CZ and Huglu make good guns within your budget with the features that you want, maybe need to order the model you want and suffer a six month wait - just in time for hunting season. If you want a more refined gun you are either going to need to stretch your budget considerably or buy a well cared for used gun in which case you may find newer features which you describe as optional like choke tubes and steel shot proofing very scarce. Better quality used boxlocks in your price range by Husqvarna and various little known Italian makers can be a bargain, some beautiful guns go begging because of double triggers, fixed chokes and unfamiliar names. Most German makers produced excellent quality guns that are very undervalued today but most have unpopular styling features. As mentioned, Spanish guns range from very poor quality to very fine, the trick is to know the difference. AYA, Union Armera, Victor Sarasqueta, Ugartechea made good quality guns at various price points, so did some lesser known makers. Avoid guns with an import company name rather than a maker’s name and avoid Spanish single triggers, they can be troublesome. Well made more modern guns by Browning ( BSS) and Ithaca/SKB (100, 200) are very good and if well looked after seem to be slowly gaining value. Be patient, be picky and be prepared to move quick if the right gun comes along, a good deal on a good gun will be recognized by other people as well. Good sized gun shows are usually good places to see a good variety of used guns in the low to medium price range. Good luck, let us know what you end up with.
 
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For upland birds, I would think ejectors are an unnecessary feature, and having them on your must-have list will discount a great many fine used boxlocks that would otherwise fit your criteria. Even on an expensive double, ejectors can be finicky and a source of expensive repairs.

I would aim for a used British-made Webley & Scott boxlock, or one of many lesser-known names (probably made by Webley & Scott anyway).

Good luck with your search!
 
canvasback said:
That was exactly my experience when I first got interested in good quality vintage SxS. Where the hell were they? I'm not sure I have an answer now except I now come across an endless assortment of them. I think with knowledge one just sees them more in a way one doesn't when you are beginning.
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It started to happen to me, partly thanks to kind advice and advisories from members of this forum, but I shook it off like a budding tobacco addiction, lol.
 
Ashcroft: If Akkar would offer their Churchills with ejectors and double triggers, I'd jump on one! But unfortunately, they only offer single trigger and extractors. I did send them a quick email to see if they were going to release double triggers in the future. Not really expecting an answer anytime soon. The only choice is gauge and stock style (english/standard or wood/black synthetic...synth on a SxS, my god what has the world come to! to each their own I guess). I have considered getting a Churchill 512...I know I would be happy with it, but I figured I'd check for a double-trigger model...just in case I could get my hands on one. I have played with barrel selector while walking around, depending if I'm in thicker cover or not. Having double triggers would be the instantaneous selector.

I think we had a similar discussion in the thread where I was searching for a 20ga, so I appreciate you taking the time to write in this thread as well. And I'll keep an eye out for those makers you mentions (AYA, union Armera, etc). I saw a Union Armera Marca Grulla on another site and it looked very nice. Unfortunately, it was a 16ga. Which I don't have anything against, but I wanted to be able to shoot some of the 12ga cartridges I already have and which are more readily available. It is very nice looking though.

@stubblejumper: I would really like to be able to handle an Huglu! But I don't think anywhere near me has one in stock. It's a detail...but I cannot stand the sight of the white plastic bead (?) that most Huglu's have.

David
 
I think some models of Huglu’s are available with double triggers. Check with Prophet River Firearms, if you can’t find your answers from their site they are very good at answering inquiries. The front bead is normally a replaceable part, screwed in and easily changed - PR could probably do that on a new gun purchase. I agree with Pinfire, a well maintained Webley and Scott ( or one made by them for others ) are great guns and they tend to be undervalued as a British gun, making one a great option. Many of these guns have seen considerable service like the ones at Tradex but will continue to provide many more years of enjoyable use, are very well made, a delight to use and straightforward to repair. At any given time I usually know where there are some of these, privately owned but likely available at prices ranging between $1000 and $2000 depending on a number of factors. At one time until recently I always had some of these guns but downsizing in the last year has sent these off to new appreciative homes. I probably saw 25-30 good English guns offered for sale at the recent big Chilliwack gun show. Asking prices ranged from about $900 for a plain basic Anson and Deeley boxlock by a little known maker to $7000 for a nicely sleeved Dickson round action ( I know, not the same thing - or price class) with quite a few nice guns well under $1800. And I also agree that ejectors are really of no value for most North American hunting and they add unnecessary complexity and expense. If I really liked a gun I certainly wouldn’t let the presence or absence of ejectors influence my decision.
 
Pinfire said:
For upland birds, I would think ejectors are an unnecessary feature, and having them on your must-have list will discount a great many fine used boxlocks that would otherwise fit your criteria. Even on an expensive double, ejectors can be finicky and a source of expensive repairs.

I would aim for a used British-made Webley & Scott boxlock, or one of many lesser-known names (probably made by Webley & Scott anyway).

Good luck with your search!
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I have to say that my Churchill (which has extractors) works well and I had an AMAZING time last year chasing grouse. I've never missed a bird because I couldn't reload fast enough. So, you might bring a valid point there. I just always assumed that "a real hunting shotgun" had ejectors.

David
 
Ashcroft said:
I think some models of Huglu’s are available with double triggers. Check with Prophet River Firearms, if you can’t find your answers from their site they are very good at answering inquiries. The front bead is normally a replaceable part, screwed in and easily changed - PR could probably do that on a new gun purchase. I agree with Pinfire, a well maintained Webley and Scott ( or one made by them for others ) are great guns and they tend to be undervalued as a British gun, making one a great option. Many of these guns have seen considerable service like the ones at Tradex but will continue to provide many more years of enjoyable use, are very well made, a delight to use and straightforward to repair. At any given time I usually know where there are some of these, privately owned but likely available at prices ranging between $1000 and $2000 depending on a number of factors. At one time until recently I always had some of these guns but downsizing in the last year has sent these off to new appreciative homes. I probably saw 25-30 good English guns offered for sale at the recent big Chilliwack gun show. Asking prices ranged from about $900 for a plain basic Anson and Deeley boxlock by a little known maker to $7000 for a nicely sleeved Dickson round action ( I know, not the same thing - or price class) with quite a few nice guns well under $1800. And I also agree that ejectors are really of no value for most North American hunting and they add unnecessary complexity and expense. If I really liked a gun I certainly wouldn’t let the presence or absence of ejectors influence my decision.
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double triggers:
https://store.prophetriver.com/sxs-double-trigger/
 
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