Trying to sight in my K11

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

Hey all,

Just to preface, I have followed the advice of some "expert" sources (swissrifles dot com, milsurps dot com, bloke on the range) but have not managed to figure this out yet or find the right trick to try.

I purchased a K11 a little while ago and some GP11. The gun is fantastically precise, tight groups at 50 yards and the groups hold well at 100 as well. However I cannot get the accuracy dialed in. Shots are grouping to the right. At 50y it's about 0.5-1 inch off, which by the time we get to 100y the group is 1-3" off, and then at 200y it's 6"+ (and of course at that distance my eyesight is not doing it any favours). I have done most of my testing at 50y though.

As I understand, these rifles are finicky, due in part to old age of the stocks as well as the non-free floated nature of their barrels. I did all my shooting off of bags. Things I have tried:
1) Checked the front sight blade hasn't drifted out, the witness marks are aligned.
1) Firmly but reasonably tightened the fore end screws. Not gorilla hands, not paper hands.
2) Tightened the front action screw, and loosened the middle screw. The tang screw was tightened, backed off, and proceeded to incrementally tighten the tang while shooting groups at 50y as per swissrifles accurizing guide.
3) Tried tightening the middle action screw once I set the tang to see if the groups shifted anymore, but they did not.

The first group I accidentally shot without tightening up the tang which was quite good, but once I tightened it up and backed it off, it seemed to have the same POI shift. I'm not sure if having the tang screw loose is something that would be worth playing with or not.

Any wisdom on the best way to proceed or anything else I might want to look at would be much appreciated. I am open to the possibility that this is shooter error as well . I'm no expert at shooting irons so maybe there is technique error in play.

Thanks everyone.

 

[BlackPowderBurner]

Adjust the windage by drifting the front sight in its dovetail. Those witness marks are merely a reference point not the definitive zero and certainly not a fixed point which is staked in.
There are crafty people who make their own tools out of socket wrenches but a brass punch tapped lightly with the barrel being supported on the other side is fine too.

 

[Irons78]

...

 

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

Adjust the windage by drifting the front sight in its dovetail. Those witness marks are merely a reference point not the definitive zero and certainly not a fixed point which is staked in.
There are crafty people who make their own tools out of socket wrenches but a brass punch tapped lightly with the barrel being supported on the other side is fine too.

Okay, if that's the case I can work with that. I read somewhere something along the lines of "if you're shooting GP11 you shouldnt have to drift the sight and instead adjust tensions" which is why I hadn't tried that yet. It's good to know that the witness marks are a reference, so I'll find a brass punch and give it just a little tappy-tap.

Do you have pics of your groups at 50 and 100? If I remember correct that rear sight starts at 300, you must be holding very low at 50 and 100. Are the groups ok elevation-wise? As suggested it might be just a matter of tapping the front blade right a hair.

It does hit high, but that is as you say the nature of the sights starting at 300 and I was expecting that. No pictures but most groups were within an inch vertically at 50 and within 2 inches at 100. Considering my eye's aren't that good and I don't have a lot of time behind it, I think that's acceptable.

Thanks everyone for the information!

 

[milsurpo]

Honeybadger: My K11 was way, way off both laterally and in vertical placement of groups. I actually had to lengthen my front blade as it was printing much too high at 300m with GP11. Someone may have altered it for handloads? It also needed lateral shifting and I found drifting it to be tough. If you look on youtube you'll see a variety of homemade front sight pushers made from stuff available at the hardware. If you do decide to drift it I would suggest setting up the rifle on your workbench and firmly clamping the sight base in a good vice between brass blocks. If yours is as tight as mine was it will take some firm hits and this will ensure that your not damaging anything.

milsurpo

 

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

Honeybadger: My K11 was way, way off both laterally and in vertical placement of groups. I actually had to lengthen my front blade as it was printing much too high at 300m with GP11. Someone may have altered it for handloads? It also needed lateral shifting and I found drifting it to be tough. If you look on youtube you'll see a variety of homemade front sight pushers made from stuff available at the hardware. If you do decide to drift it I would suggest setting up the rifle on your workbench and firmly clamping the sight base in a good vice between brass blocks. If yours is as tight as mine was it will take some firm hits and this will ensure that your not damaging anything.

milsurpo

I don't have access to 300m sadly, but the vertical placement out to 100 does not seem overly high, only a couple inches, though I may order one of the taller front blades in the future so I can get it bang on at 100. As for moving the front blade, I thought about it overnight and I will probably end up making a sight pusher as opposed to tapping it in a vice. I don't have a proper work bench and the sight pusher has the benefit of being able to go with me to the range, so it doesn't take 4 trips to get the darn thing lined up right. The easiest and cheapest way seems to be a shaft collar with a set screw, so see what I can turn up next chance I get.

 

[mbogo3]

I had to set my rear sight on 200 to hit on at 100 otherwise .75" groups GP11........fed a mule deer a 150gr win PP handload last fall.

 

[gyates93]

I had to set my rear sight on 200 to hit on at 100 otherwise .75" groups GP11........fed a mule deer a 150gr win PP handload last fall.

The lowest sight setting on a K11 is 300m, unlike the K31 which is 100m. Bloke on the Range did an interesting video on how the K31 sights are set up - point of aim/point of impact at less than 300, 6 o'clock hold at 300 and further. Might be why you're seeing a low POI at 100 when set at 100.

To adjust the front sight, drift in the dovetail fore and aft (diagonally milled dovetail.) Drift right to adjust POI left.

 

[diopter]

Front sight correction is opposite to where you want impact to go.
Before changing anything try moving you head forwards and backwards along the buttstock(different cheek rest).
Quite often it can make a difference in windage and elevation.






Different people will need some changes in Point of aim. Prone and sitting in bench often require a change beside individual visual perspective and body alignment to the rifle.
That's why sniper pairs have to be matched to use the same rifle's sighting.